SOS Falls of Clyde

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by mflapan, Jul 9, 2008.

  1. mflapan
    Joined: Oct 2005
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    mflapan Junior Member

    Dear All

    This thread is a little out of the normal scope of this forum but I believe that participants will find the subject of importance. Hopefully the moderator will feel the same!

    The historic 130 year old 4 masted ship Falls of Clyde is under threat of destruction at Honolulu.

    This would be no less than an act of vandalism as the Falls of Clyde is of great significance for Hawaii, for the United States AND for the international community. The ship is:

    One of the very few remaining nineteenth century square-riggers;
    The only remaining example of a four masted fully-rigged ship afloat;
    The only remaining example of a sailing oil tanker; and
    The only remaining big sailing ship to have been registered in Hawaii.

    If the loss of this wonderful old vessel is of concern to you, or even better if you feel you would like to do something about it then please visit my web page at:

    http://www.boatregister.net/FallsOfClyde.html

    Regards
    Mori
     
  2. Butch .H
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    Butch .H Senior Member

    Can you or are you authorised to raise money to save this beautiful ship. If so contact me for my donation
     
  3. mflapan
    Joined: Oct 2005
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    Location: Sydney, Australia

    mflapan Junior Member

    Dear Butch H.

    Thank you very much for your generous offer of support to save the iron 4-masted ship Falls of Clyde.

    I am not directly involved in any fund-raising organisation, but there is a link on my webpage to the Save the Falls of Clyde webpages at:

    http://www.savethefallsofclyde.com/page2.htm

    The bottom of the their page gives the information about a fund-raising drive.

    Best regards
    Mori
    http://www.boatregister.net/FallsOfClyde.html

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    If you donate to the Bishop Museum and they still sink her, you will probably NOT get your money back! So if you want your money back in case they sink her, please donate to the Caledonian Society and they will guarantee your refund.

    Whom to Contact

    Jeanie Ainlay (808) 678-8881 ainlayj001@hawaii.rr.com

    Heather MacGregor (808) 526-1559 heather@savethefallsofclyde.com

    Direct Contributions

    If you want to contribute directly to the effort to save the Falls of Clyde, please send your donation to The Caledonian Society of Hawaii, P.O. Box 4164, Honolulu HI 96812-4164.

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
     
  4. mflapan
    Joined: Oct 2005
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    mflapan Junior Member

    Dear All

    I have added a new page linked to the Falls of Clyde webpage illustrating an approach to restoration that might have value for the Falls of Clyde and other museum vessels.

    You can view the page at:

    http://www.boatregister.net/JamesCraig.html

    If you have not done so already, please consider expressing your concerns regarding the proposed scuttling of the Falls of Clyde. A list of persons and organizations of influence can be found at the webpage http://www.boatregister.net/FallsOfClyde.html with email addresses listed.

    A few minutes of your time could help save this lovely old ship.

    Best regards
    Mori
     
  5. mflapan
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    Location: Sydney, Australia

    mflapan Junior Member

    Dear All

    The latest information sent to me by a friend:

    Spartalk forum at http://briontoss.com/spartalk/showthread.php?p=3650

    2008-06-30

    .....but have been flat-out on a major project: sending down the rig on the four-masted, full-rigged ship "Falls of Clyde", in Honolulu. It is exciting work, and it is a privilege to be aboard one of the finest square-riggers on Earth, but boy is it exhausting.
    So far we've sent down all the yards on the jigger and mizzen masts. We move on to the main tomorrow. I am hoping that things will smooth out, and that I'll be able to be more present here soon. Christian will be posting photo's on the site in the near future. Until later then,

    Photos can be viewed at: http://www.briontoss.com/fallsofclyde/index.html (compare the current condition of the Falls of Clyde against the condition at the beginning of the restoration of the James Craig (2Mb)).

    2008-07-13

    ....As for the ship's future, it appears to be extremely short; we were hired for the downrig because major pieces were starting to fall out of the sky, and the hull was in even worse shape. So we are endeavoring to give the dear vessel a solid and respectful last downrig. As of today, after 3 weeks here, there are only 3 topmasts and some standing rigging left to send down. Already on deck are the jibboom, 4 t'gallant masts,14 yards, and thousands of feet of standing rigging. Also a huge pile of blocks, shackles, etc. We calculate that we have lowered about 40 tons of wood and metal so far. This is a large ship....

    Regards Mori
     
  6. AuxiliaryComms
    Joined: Jan 2008
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    Location: Hayes, VA

    AuxiliaryComms Master work in progress

    That doesn't sound good. Isn't there some way to get this blocked while funds are raised?
     
  7. mflapan
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    mflapan Junior Member

    Dear Jason

    Thank you for your concern.

    I understand the vessel is designated a national monument by the US National Parks Service. I would suggest that you might discuss the situation with them. If anyone has the power to prevent this, it is a Federal Government Agency such as this one. I have written to them myself, but as a non-US citizen, there is a limit to the influence that I can exert

    I heard today that a public forum was to be held in Honolulu. I have not yet heard of an outcome. Will keep you all informed.

    In the meantime I have written a second letter to the editor of the Honolulu Star Bulletin as follows, which I hope will be published.

    Best regards
    Mori

    ______________________________________________________________

    Dear Mr Bridgewater

    The ongoing threatened destruction of the Falls of Clyde continues to be of major concern to people all over the world who are interested in our maritime heritage. There are ongoing reports that the vessel is being derigged in preparation for scuttling. See the web page http://www.boatregister.net/FallsOfClyde.html

    A number of international chat forums have their eyes on Hawaii to see what will happen. Hawaii is in real danger of equating itself with certain irresponsible "third world countries" when it comes to preserving the world's cultural heritage. It is equivalent to blowing up antiquities in the name of religious zealotry. Just in this case, it is in the name of capitalism or worse still, apathy!.

    There are viable alternatives to scuttling the Falls of Clyde available for the Bishop museum. These are not theoretical but have been learnt through actual experience. Lessons learnt during the restoration of the James Craig's in Sydney are relevant to the Falls of Clyde. These can be viewed on my web page at http://www.boatregister.net/JamesCraig.html. A photo of the James Craig under sail after being restored from a state in much worse condition than the Falls of Clyde is attached. You are welcome to publish it.

    Placing the ship on a pontoon dock will buy time to locate funds. Other alternatives could be found. You could recommission a disused dry dock if you have one available (yes we did that too to restore another ship, the tug Waratah). Or if worse comes to worse, the Bishop Museum could beach the hull in a remote protected location. Excuse my bluntness, but do anything to hold onto the ship till either Hawaiian society can arrange to properly protect its maritime heritage, or a new home can be found for your poor orphan of the sea. Who knows, perhaps someone might be able to convince the UAE to come to the rescue of the world's only preserved oil tanker. It would make a wonderful centrepiece at one of Dubai's new developments. The main thing that I emplore is please don't scuttle the Falls of Clyde because if you do, she will be lost to Hawaii and the world forever!

    Yours sincerely

    Mori Flapan
     
  8. mflapan
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    mflapan Junior Member

    Dear participants to Boat Design.net

    This is the latest report on events concerning the threat to the Falls of Clyde.

    A meeting of concerned stakeholders was held on Monday 14 July in Honolulu to see what could be done to save the Falls of Clyde. About 30 people attended including members of the Propeller Club, Coast Guard officials, a representative of the Bishop Museum, original riggers of the ship, Harbor Pilots, a Maritime Archaeologist (who had done an 8 page recommendation for the reconstruction of hull etc.), the Caledonian Society, the Navy League, a dry dock company that is considering dry docking the ship at cost and a towing company that will tow her there free. The meeting was described by one participant as hot and heavy because most people had no idea that the ship was to be sunk until the articles were leaked into the newspapers and magazines. A number of proposals were mooted. A company originally contracted to tow the ship out for sinking has refused to do so. The Bishop Museum agreed to stop dismantling the ship for the time being. The spars and masts have been removed but they were in bad shape anyway. Another meeting is scheduled for next Monday.

    While this very small start has been a positive development, the Falls of Clyde is still very much in treacherous waters. I encourage any concerned persons to keep an eye on what is happening and to continue to actively lobby to save this very historic vessel.

    Regards
    Mori
     
  9. longliner45
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    longliner45 Senior Member

    im so sorry,,,,,seeing the destruction of a piece of history ,,but please dont ask for my tax dollars to be spent here ,,in a time of war ,I would rather buy some armoure for a humvee or some body armoure for a trooper in the field ,,we should not be botherd by a old sailboat that nobody seems to care about.,if it were a time of peace ,,my responce would be much different ,,please bear with me ,,,but the federal money could be spent much wiser,,longliner
     
  10. longliner45
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    longliner45 Senior Member

    private donation is the only hope ,so if that fails ,,dont blame Hawaii,or the US,,all concerned from abroad,,put your money up,longliner
     
  11. artemis
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    artemis Steamboater

    :!: Being a US Army vet and a very proud American - I'm not very proud when blithering, right wing, war hawks put the killing of men, women, and children above the preservation of history. Fortunately we both live in a country where freedom of speech is still a right, otherwise I'd find another way to contest your vicious and cruel spending of OUR tax dollars. :!:
     
  12. mflapan
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    mflapan Junior Member

    Dear longliner

    It interests me that you make the assumption that I am advocating that the Falls of Clyde would be restored entirely by tax dollars. Hopefully philanthropy is still alive and well in the US. In restoring the James Craig, we were very fortunate to have a number of significant large private donations as well as contributions by government and many thousands of small donations of cash, as well as years of voluntary commitment by a large group of people. I believe the US Government has two roles.

    1. To do what is needed to prevent the ship being destroyed.
    2. To provide enough seed money to get the project on the road again.

    As I have said in some earlier posts, success breeds success. If progress can be seen in intermediate phases of the project, that will encourage others at a future date to provide support in cash or in kind.

    The proposal to place the Falls of Clyde on a pontoon dock is a great first step. It both saves the ship from being scuttled or sinking through neglect, and it provides the first tangible sign that the outcome is achievable.

    Just as an aside, it is interesting to note that the Brits took steps to protect the Cutty Sark during WW2, notwithstanding their critical position at time of war. Conflicts will come and go, but we need to be optomistic that civilization goes on. While I have sympathy for your concerns, the challenge is to find the right balance between immediate needs and the long term interests of our descendants. That is why I would not suggest that all funds be forthcoming from Government now. All that is needed is to take the necessary steps to secure the vessel for the future.

    I hope this helps to clarify my position.

    I have attached a photo of the James Craig at sea, mainly just to inspire.

    Best regards
    Mori
     

    Attached Files:

  13. artemis
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    artemis Steamboater

    Don't waste your breath, Mori. Longliner is more interested in buying bullets to kill babies than retaining a cultural heritage.
     
  14. mflapan
    Joined: Oct 2005
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    mflapan Junior Member

    Dear All

    STOP PRESS!!!!

    I received the following message today from Chris Woolaway:

    ...just got word that the Bishop Museum has stuck with their original time table the FALLS is scheduled to be sunk on Tuesday Aug. 5. which was not what we heard at Monday’s meeting from Blair.

    It looks like the situation is getting desperate. If you don't want to see this lovely old ship destroyed forever, write to Tim Johns President of the Bishop Museum at museum@bishopmuseum.org. Also write to one or more of the various people listed at the top of the Falls of Clyde webpage at www.boatregister.net/FallsOfClyde.html

    It would be a terrible thing if the ship was scuttled before the local group who are trying to save her get a chance to become established. The following is a summary of their meeting only just last Monday

    Regards
    Mori

    "The report of the Friends of the Falls of Clyde meeting that was held on 28 July focussed on the immediate issue of what would have to be done to save the ship. It was reported that, while the Bishop Museum was willing to see another party take over the vessel, they would only delay their plans to scuttle the vessel for a limited period, thought to possibly be till mid August. It was noted that the next Museum Board meeting of the Bishop Museum is to be held in about three weeks. It was imperative that the Board be presented with some sort of fleshed out preservation plan with a realistic budget, but taking into account generous offers of support through donations or 'at cost' provision of goods and services. There would need to be a non-profit organization to take responsibility of the ship from Bishop Museum, and this could also be discussed at the Board meeting. With this in mind, other items that were discussed at the Friends of Falls of Clyde meeting included potential groups that might take the vessel on, planning for project coordination, a project office, matters pertaining to purchase of the vessel (including fundraising, insurance, berthing, existing documenttion), securing of the vessel, short term restoration goals, partnerships with other organizations, A disturbing development was news that representatives of the San Diego Maritime Museum and Mystic Seaport Museum would be coming out to view the rigging fittings from Falls of Clyde for their own use. Their best guess was that as things currently stand, the ship had a one in five chance of being saved. The next meeting is scheduled for 4 August"
     

  15. mflapan
    Joined: Oct 2005
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    Location: Sydney, Australia

    mflapan Junior Member

    Dear All

    The immediate threat has been averted. Bishop Museum has now back-tracked (TEMPORARILY!). The new date that they have set for scuttling the Falls of Clyde is 1st Sept 2008, a stay of execution for a month. Thank you to those who added their voices to help persuade Bishop Museum to think again.

    While this is good news in that there is some more time for action, the local group still needs support wherever it might be available. So please keep thinking about and exploring options for how we can secure the ship's future.

    Best regards
    Mori
     
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