Commercial fishing trimaran?

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by pir8ped, Jun 7, 2008.

  1. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    John, a good friend of mine had a Falmouth working boat. When not working they are raced. I was sitting with John one time in the RCYC watching a race. 4 working boats beating up to the finish on a gusty day. Suddenly there were only 3 of them. The fourth had heeled in a gust, filled up and sunk. I wonder how many monohulls have done the same thing in the past???

    As I say on my website, these days you are far more likely to hear of a monohull losing its keel than of a cruising catamaran capsizing. And the monohulls don't seem to be just one off racing boats. Look at Hooligan and the Bavarias. People tend to die on boats that sink, they don't do so so often on boats that stay afloat.

    Just about anyone can take a charter boat off for a weeks holiday. If catamarans were really that dangerous why do all the charter companies use them?

    When I was racing in the 2000 Capetown to Rio race a fellow competitor, on a monohull, hit a container and began to sink. The crew were all rescued by a CATAMARAN. Useful things catamarans, every monohull owner should have one around.

    Do you, longliner45, talk from experience or are you just prejudiced???

    I try not to comment on things I haven't experienced personally. As I have sailed most of the west coast America (Juneau, Alaska to Cabo St Lucas, Mexico) in monohulls, crossed the Atlantic in a Swan 55 and sailed other monohulls thousands of miles in the Caribbean and Europe I think I can compare them to multihulls, which I have sailed even more.

    Without experience like mine can one's comments be taken at all seriously? and do they help your cause?

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  2. longliner45
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    longliner45 Senior Member

    first of all I speak from experiance,,,,look up jc boat,,I fished these boats ,in all weather ,,year round ,120 miles offshore,I have retrieved fishing gear in steady 70 knots gusting to 120 knots ,,I have rode many hurricanes and tropical depressions out in these monos,,at the time we had one weather satillight,making a pass at a 24 hr period,,,,yes some monos roll .if it dont have the correct design to take rough weather ,,then it too is not worthy,,,,no chine ,,not worthy ,,no keel or ballast ,,not worthy,,,fisherman know what works best ,,if it were cats ar trams ,,that is what they would be using ,,now,, the man asked if sail power was good enough to use for commercial fishing ,,I say yes ,,and leave it at that,longliner
     
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  3. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    Of course the majority of the world's fishermen do use trimarans. Think Philippines/Sri Lanka etc. And they usually sail, not motor them as well

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  4. longliner45
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    longliner45 Senior Member

    but I think the young man wants yo go offshore
     
  5. SheetWise
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    SheetWise All Beach -- No Water.

    It's really a matter of size, isn't it?
     
  6. pir8ped
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    pir8ped Junior Member

    Longliner - I do want to go offshore, up to 50 miles perhaps, but usually less.

    I have been offshore many times in several monohulls I have owned, many I have delivered as a delivery skipper, and some belonging to friends. I also spent 5 years living aboard and sailing a trimaran.

    I have decided my next boat will have more than one hull, and no lead, for speed, safety and comfort. I don't think the mono/multi debate is that relevant to this thread.

    John
     
  7. longliner45
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    longliner45 Senior Member

    I do not want the multi mono debate here,I think it is only common sense,to each his own ,,but,imagine,the roughest weather possible to be in ,,sooner or later you the owner or your hired skipper will be in it,,,,,to make money sometimes ya got to stay when it gets rough,,,,and still be able to fish ,,while it is rough,,,,you would probably be better off buying a fishing boat and putting a mast on it ,,,,,,the JC 31<WILL SAIL,longliner
     
  8. kengrome
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    kengrome Senior Member

    Maybe they still sail them in Sri Lanka, but I can assure you that most of the trimaran fishing boats in the Philippines are driven by internal combustion engines these days. The engines can almost always push these boats too fast to be safe too, especially in slightly moderate conditions -- but they do it anyways -- and then they occasionally end up swamping the boats. It's a good thing they are made of wood and not plastic or they would sink.

    Some of them do sink of course, but that's usually because they are old and waterlogged to begin with, or because they have too much high density stuff onboard so it overcomes the wood's natural buoyancy when the hull is filled with water. Of course practically none of these boats have any source of additional flotation in them. This is a third world country and flotation is costly and not required, so they simply dispense with it.

    Personally I feel that most of these boats are not very seaworthy to begin with. Then again they are a far distant -- some might say 'ancient' -- relative to the type of modern trimarans you guys are talking about.

    I only *wish* that Filipinos would go back to using sails like they used to decades ago. But I guess fuel prices still haven't risen far enough to encourage this change.
     
  9. pir8ped
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    pir8ped Junior Member

    Fuel prices really are hitting fishermen here. Have you not noticed the French fishermen blockading ports over fuel costs? I know some Scottish fishermen are thinking of quitting. Some down here in Devon are thinking of adding auxiliary sail.

    Which way do you think fuel prices will go in the future? Even if they go down, they will certainly go up again. There is a limited supply of oil.

    Longliner, why would you consider it imperative that I am out fishing in foul weather? No fun in that. If I don't have a big boat, big maintenance costs, high capital input, I can just leave the boat in harbour in bad weather, and do something else. Fishing doesn't have to be my sole occupation.

    Light weight, low capital, low fuel cost fishing - that's what I am aiming for. And maximising profit by taking on the extra work of selling direct to the public.

    As well as running out of fuel, we are running out of fish. Some netting operations result in up to 60% bycatch. Because of the stupid quota system, a very great deal of perfectly good fish is thrown back dead. This kind of fishing can't go on. Using jigging machines, bycatch is almost nil, since you can target the right species, and the odd wrong one can usually be thrown back alive. And using jigging machines doesn't require a great big boat with great big engines.

    I think it is the future. I intend to demonstrate it ( or find out why I am wrong ).

    John
     
  10. charmc
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    charmc Senior Member

    Richard,

    With all respect, and recognizing that you have experience in both mono and multihull recreational sailboats, in your comments to longliner45 you are an experienced yachtsman telling an experienced commercial fisherman that his years of fishing offshore, in all weather conditions, for his livelihood, isn't enough to have his comments about commercial fishing boat design "taken at all seriously", because he hasn't been in as many types of recreational boats as you have. Is it just me, or does something seem a bit off in that picture? :)

    Again, with all respect for your own experience, this is a discussion of a commercial fishing venture.
     
  11. charmc
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    charmc Senior Member

    John,

    You mentioned that you want to prove a concept, which I understood to mean that you expect others to follow suit if it works out. For most commercial fishermen fishing is, if not their sole means of support, at least a major component of it. That's why they so often go out or stay out in stormy weather. I don't know if there are seasons in the fisheries in which you'd be working, but unless you (in the general sense) are highly successful at producing a large income from every trip, and unless most customers are willing to go elsewhere when you decide to stay in port but will come back every time you do go out, it's hard to see this as a sustainable concept for someone who depends on fishing for most of his/her income. If you meant this only as a part time venture for yourself, then I misunderstood, and these comments won't apply.

    Seakeeping ability with a full load should be a design factor, however, as, even in this electronic age, getting caught offshore in severe weather is a possibility we all must face, sooner or later. :)
     
  12. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    Charlie: I was commenting on these two postings - after all this is the Multihull forum...

    "you said you were in falmouth,,seeking shelter,but the oysterman were still working ,,in thier mono hulls ,,I think the reason is that monos are more sea worthy than multis ,,it has been desputed time and time again on these pages,,,dont want to start that argument again ,,but monos are time proven ,multis are relitively new on the seen ,,I agree with the sail aspect of fishing ,if all boats were sail ,,fish stocks would be OK,longliner,,show some pics....."
    AND
    "yes Richard,,,im with ya there,,,but how many didnt return home ,from these voyages ,,the vikings used monos,,,,,and Groupama just turned over alongside many other multis in the past,,,,,the record speaks for itself,,"

    it was only later that longliner said he was a fisherman.

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
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  13. charmc
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    charmc Senior Member

    Profile's been up since 2005. :)

    Richard,

    You're absolutely right, this is the multihull forum and topics are usually about various multihull designs. However, in this instance the topic is about a commercial fishing venture. I submit respectfully that, since the vast majority of commercial fishing boats in the Western Hemisphere have been monohulls for millenia, including the merits of a monohull for this application is appropriate to the discussion.

    On the subject of commercial fishing: most commercial line fishing boats I've been around are much more heavily built than recreational boats, for obvious reasons. My own experience with mono and multihull sailboats is strictly recreational. It seems a fair question to ask how building a multihull to commercial fishing standards would affect cost and sailing performance. The fish load John Pederson described is similar to the weight of several people with cruising gear, but what effect would the ice load and heavier construction overall have?
     
  14. rayaldridge
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    rayaldridge Senior Member

    I'm a big believer in multihulls, but for commercial fishing, I'd have to say that a monohull makes more sense, and it has nothing to do with safety. I believe multis are safer than monos, as a generality, but the whole point of commercial fishing is to haul a lot of weight home, and multis are poorly suited to that endeavor.

    On the other hand, has anyone considered the idea of charter fishing under sail? I live near Destin, FL, home of a large fleet of charter boats. These guys burn vast amounts of fuel to get out to the reefs, and they've been raising their prices steeply in an effort to keep up with the additional fuel costs. In an industry like that-- where the amounts of fish sought are not prohibitively heavy, sailing vessels might well be economically viable, especially if fuel costs continue to rise. Such a charter boat could be promoted as ecologically responsible, and snag customers who would prefer to spend their money on recreational pursuits that don't pollute. Furthermore, if you've ever been out on a big monohull charter boat, you know that in a seaway those boats roll like pigs. The customers are often lined up along the rails, puking into the seas. A big stable cat would be vastly more comfortable than that. Plus, with a little ingenuity, more people could go out on each trip, because on a big cat, there's more perimeter.
     

  15. charmc
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    charmc Senior Member

    There have been some discussions here on the subject of sailing multihulls rigged as sportfishermen. That does seem like an idea whose time has come, perhaps.

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21289&highlight=sail sportfisherman

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19248&highlight=sail sportfisherman

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14900&highlight=sail sportfisherman

    Brian Eiland has a design for a sail sportfisherman here: http://www.runningtideyachts.com/home/

    I wouldn't be surprised if Richard Woods or some of the other multihull designers here haven't done at least a preliminary design for a cat as sportfisherman.
     
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