Solar and wind turbines on vessels?

Ahhh. I see what you mean. Practical matters like that are not my strong suit. I really haven't thought about any aspect other than the ship motions and the possible uses for the energy. (I'm not connected to the company in except for my own curiosity and because one of my colleagues is a principal of the project.)

I'm glad that someone is thinking about using old hulls for more than just scrap.

Leo.

 

no I kidd you NOT, 2.80 a quarter all our vege comes up from vICTORIA
Tomorrow I will go take a pic down there

 

Leo,
I don't like very much the idea of having a vessel moored beam to sea and winds for an extended period of time 10 miles offshore. In spite of her size, she may develope resonance rolling in the adequate sea condition.
Also, the mooring in such position is going to be overstressed in anything more than flat weather, taking into account the added drags of the beamed ship, wind mills and water mills.
Although the idea of transforming existing vessels for this use looks interesting (They may be very useful in the Med coast of Spain, and some projects are being considered around here) I have serious doubts about Seadov's project being a feasible one in the way it's displayed.

Cheers.

 

I agree that the mooring shown in the drawing in Leo's post looks inadequate, but she could be moored to four, or more, piled fixtures and then her heading could be controlled by winching her into line, fore or aft, with any strong wind or tidal forces that develop. That way she would remain in the same position which will be necessary for the cables that take the power away.
The idea is certainly worth running trials with.

Murdo

 

Thanks G and M.
From what I can gather they do have innovative mooring methods and, as Murdo mentioned, winches or something similar are involved. They also have some technique for extracting energy from rolling motions as well as heave etc., but I am not at liberty to discuss that. I don't know the nitty-gritty details anyway.

I accept Guillermo's point that resonance in roll would normally be a problem, but it would be less of a problem if they can extract most of that energy and use it.

As for trials? I guess that would be pretty expensive at full-scale!
In any case, it makes for an interesting practical project for students. Some aspects of the system are being used as a project for 2nd year engineering students here at Adelaide Uni.

Leo.

 

Interesting. Thanks.

 

This all reminds me of a day 30 years ago, I was working next to a caisson on an oil platform. It had a heavy steel cap placed over it to stop anyone falling inside. The waves were quite big that day and the cap kept getting lifted up by the compressed air. I thought it was my Eureka moment and spent the rest of my trip dreaming up ways of collecting all this free energy.
On the train home I was reading a magazine and it contained an article on wave energy. One of the ideas being developed by the scientists was what is now known as the oscillating water column, exactly what I had witnessed. The idea had first been raised in Venice hundreds of years before.

The turret mooring system that is used on Floating, Production, Storage & Offloading vessels (FPSO's) would be ideal for Leo's vessel, maybe with a huge otter-board or sail on the stern to pull her sideways. Of course with wind turbines and tide turbines she would be pulled two ways at once in any case.

http://www.singlebuoy.com/HTML/LeaseOperations/Systems/Serpentina.htm

 

Just to add a few bits to this interesting conversation. A catamaran has already succesfully crossed the Atlantic on Solar Power (PV) averaging speeds not unlike a typical sailboat. There is lots of energy available at sea, including wind (no trees and hills to get in the way), Solar (you get the added benefits of reflection off the clouds and water), current and wave generators, etc.

The reason that more of this is not utilized is a lack of imagination by financiers and and the general dumbed-down state of the population under the sway of enormous corporate interests.

 

Solar and Wind Power are being used now

My boat, like many large boats now have solar and wind power. They don't power the boat but a good series of batteries and inverters run most house systems fine for a few hours a day. This gives the generators a break. Of course you have to limit your power use. My Solar Panels generate 300 watts and my wind 800 watts. Enough to keep my batteries up. Obviously, I can live on 2000 watts for half the day. Then start up generator up in Morning if anchor for more charging and hot water.

 

That's just conspiratorial nonsense. Some, but not all people, may be hoodwinked by "enormous corporate interests", but what about the millions that aren't?

If someone can come up with an economical and durable system to extract *very large* amounts of energy from the ocean and deliver it to where it is needed, it will be adopted by, for example, China, Cuba, India and a host of other energy-poor countries. The problem is that nobody has yet come up with such a system.

Leo.

 

I don't think that point of view is supportable. As this discussion and you yourself have pointed out, the costs of implementing these kinds of technologies is great. Part of the reason for these high costs has to do with counter-pressure by existing industries with threatened vested interests, some of it has to do with the way these same organizations have come to control the regulatory environment in their interest and against the interest of "upstart" technologies. Here for example is a company that I have been following for 20 years that has just what you are talking about. http://www.seasolarpower.com/
This technology is well understood, yet it languishes on the drawing board.

 

Not for boating applications, but I've read lately about a serious looking project to produce in the USA up to a 35% of its total energy needs from solar energy by 2050, with collectors (both photovoltaic and thermal) located in the southwest of the country and distribution in the form of continuous current. An investment of 420.000 millions of dollars from 2011 to 2020 will be needed, which can be obtained taxing the kWh in 0.5 cents.

All cars would be switched to electrics by that time (an estimated 344 millions of units). Interesting to know that USA's present anual energy consumption can diminish from 100 trillions of Joule nowadays, to 93 trillions in 2050, just because such switching to solar.

120,000 square km would be needed, being this only a 19% of the surface available for the placing of solar energy collectors in the desertic areas of the southwest.

Cheers.

 

I'd say that qualified people have assessed the system before investing and found it wanting. If there were millions to be made from it, the system would be up and running somewhere. Maybe one day the economics of energy will be such that it is viable, but that also might still be some way off.

I've seen dozens of systems ranging from Salter's ducks to all manner of oscillating water columns, sea-snakes like "Pelamaus", and a few wave focussing devices. None have made the cut quite yet. Several great hydrodynamicists put their reputations on the line back in the 1970's to model proposed systems, and none have made it to market yet. You say it is a conspiracy and market manipulation; I say it is that the systems are not good enough yet to attract investors. Investors who, by the way, have thrown money at a lot of other walls. Why haven't they thrown money at the system you put forward? Because they were scared off by big business? Why would Cuba or India or Japan not want the world-saving system you put forward?

But as I said, the economics might be shifting so that some previously discarded ideas become viable. Many also might not scale up well from small installations to the size needed to power entire cities and industries.

All the best,
Leo.

 

Pages of the "Solar America Initiative"
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/solar/solar_america/about.html
Cheers.

 

maybe i noticed becouse in the past i "played" with these inflatable ladder kites, now tests are done with a the ladder mill
i dont know and read the small lettering to see its supposed to be a rotating loop of kites