Benefits of manufacturing in India

Longliner, I'm not disagreeing with your commentary on Chinese working conditions and pollution standards. I only commented that they are growing economies. I didn't say a word about how wonderful this is, or for that matter, how terrible it is. If you can show me how you were led to think, "a blind man can see this ,,, take a good ,,good look around time to smell the coffey,,,----------- as if I don't see it, or had argued in favor of child labor and billowing black smoke, I'll say, "Oops!"
It's funny how people who completely agree about the basic problem of rampant industrialization can't discuss the topic without making broad assumptions about the intentions of the one they're talking with.
I almost bever buy Chinese products for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is I don't wish to support the manufacture of goods at such humanistic cost. Just last week i bought a pair of American made steel-toed boots. This week I am searching hard for an American made Delta or Powermatic bandsaw----- used. Home Depot has exactly what I need for only $349.00.
It's Chinese, unfortunately. A bargain for me, but that casting was almost certainly produced without much regard for things I like to support, like clean air for example.
My drill press is an old Craftsman. My table saw an American Delta. Ditto virtually all of my power tools, hand tools, mechanic tools, welders, furniture, clothes----- almost without exception.
I burn only American fuel to heat my home----- wood. As far as I'm concerned, it is fine if you or anyone else here chooses to buy Chinese or Indian or any other emerging third world country out there.
Just know where the problem really originates. Someone has to buy all those products. Look around your shop, your home, your garage, your closets.
Then tell me what the problem is.

Alan

 

That is very admirable of you alen, and if you do that well it is your choice. I hate to say that you are pissing in to the wind doing this on your own, but I take my hat off to you.

Are you saying that if we all adopted this --"buy my own country product thing" that this would bring down cost of maunufacturing-- said home product to levels on par with asian under develpoed countries. yet still taking care of pollution and environmental consiquences?

 

No. I drive a Toyota truck, which imports less oil, if not vehicles. I'm not jingoistic at all. I do believe in sustainable living, which means responsible support of local products. It is a fallacy that we couldn't live without Wal Mart. While they sell American groceries, virtually everything else is Chinese.
I find that the things I really need------ food, shelter, fuel, etc., are domestic products anyway. What is amazing to me is how few people realize how simple it would be to pay more for the more peripheral items and support the one economy that makes their lives better. They save money on the front end, if electronics and clothes and weed wackers and rugs are their thing. They pay back on the back end though, when their neighbors lose their jobs and their government is borrowing money from China to feed the consumer-driven stock market. The president goes on TV to demonstrate his credit card in action at a department store, but what isn't seen is where the money comes from, and what it means in terms of national security and eventual economic servitude, as a consumer of all things.
The cost of domestic manufacturing involves one obvious factor---- higher prices--- and a hidden one--- a higher standard of living and security for future generations. My mother never worked except at home. We had no cell phones, cable TV, Malasian furniture, we wore $4.00 Keds sneakers, our bicycles weighed a ton, and the doctor came to our house. Sound familiar?
In today's dollars, a skilsaw cost $250.00 in 1973. Today, thanks to foreign competition, primarily from China, a skilsaw costs $100.00. Yet, I don't remember hard times. These are hard times, with a 100k family income and the baby still goes to daycare. Not because it's necessary, but because we've lost our way. Or they have. I hide up here in the woods and watch as it creeps in. God forbid the stock market should crash.

Alan

 

alan

alan perhaps I read you wrong ,,you seem ok,,,,,,,,were gonna have a lot of fun here,,,,,longliner

 

Glad to hear it.

A.

 

Alan,

Sorry I took a while to get back to you. Pretty busy with work stuff, and I wanted to give your comments some thought.

I still maintain that many Third World governments, especially India, continue to both tolerate and encourage the abuse of their own people. There are, as Longliner points out repeatedly, greedy rich ******** all over the world who exploit their workers. In India and other places, the exploitation of the workers is actually encouraged by those governments. I believe that is an atrocity, the very opposite of what government's role is supposed to be. You have said you believe it is only a matter of degree. I don't accept that for I believe it too easily can lead to minimizing the problem because, "it's just a matter of degree... and it's so far away, etc." I'm not accussing you of thinking that, Alan, but I am saying is is a danger inherent in your believing it's just a matter of degree.

I said earlier I believed your intentions were good, and you've proven that with all you've said since. And please don't think I don't realize that there are abuses here as well. Yes, there has been resistance on the part of corporations to taking remedial action early in the process of learning about negative effects of products. My point is that, as evidence accumulated about harmful effects, our government has moved to legislate change. Sometimes in the vanguard, sometimes much too slowly, but eventually moving to do the right thing.

For the record, while I think global outsourcing of manufacturing is inevitable (it happend in the 18th and 19th centuries, when US trade expanded because goods could be made more efficiently here rather than in Europe), I believe also that too many corporate top executives lack vision, and are focusing on short term profits at the expense of long term planning and investment to find new ways to add value and thus to create new jobs. While a few industries and companies are focused on finding new problems and new ways to solve old ones, most are taking the easy way out by cutting costs.

Alan, I disagree with some of what you've said, but I respect your thinking, and, yes, we do agree on many things.

Good to have you around.

Charlie

 

2 Friends of mine recently orderd 2 Royal enfield motorcycles from Chinni India.

They intended riding them bacK to Malaysia through Burma. The bikes were not ready due to a major engine component manufacturer being on strike.

The decided not to stay in India for another two weeks.

One of my friends had been warned that India will be a shock to him. He told me that he could not possible have been prepaired for what he saw.

Polution in the streets beyong description, human feaces all over the pavment along with people doing it right there and then. Dogs rolling in it.

Distorted beggers--usually by their parents at birth, children constanty following the with twisted limbs. Poverty beyond imagination

As they did a small bit of sight seeing it was evident that there was no reason in tolerating such conditions and returned to Malyasia untill the bikes were ready.

Apparantly they saw an old lady sleeping in the street, every day she was there untill they realised that her arms were in exactly the same position --she was dead.

At night the streets were full of sleepers.

As they left they read in an Indian Magazine that Chinni hade been voted the second cleanest city in India.

Any body want to sell up and move the family there?

 

Those Enfields are really nice looking bikes. I would imagine they are also not well put together, which is unfortunate, because I like the genuine retro-ness.
They stock and sell them here in Maine, and I've looked them over.
I'm getting the feeling they may be about as relaiable as fifties British bikes---- which is to say you can know where they're parked in the driveway even when they're not there, and with a little more effort, you could find out where they went too. I've owned three Triumphs, so I know.
Yeah, Jack. India sounds pretty horrible. How to solve it?

A.

 

I believe they give you some spares before you drive away. Apparantly a clutch cable is one of them.

To make matters worse the bikes they are having are completely new engines --all ally I am told. Engines 1 and 2 is theres !!!!!

Mmmm ide rather have numbers 40 or 50

Sounds like they are pretty well much just like the originals as far as reliability is concerened.

I had been away and had just missed the trip ,---but if they make it I shall get some guys together and do it myself.

 

I rather see them manufacture things in India than China for personal reasons.

There is no real benefitt in producing in anny off them. India is low qualety crap. China is uneficiant and nothing is economical to produce there and the only reason they make money by moving there is that they are heavely founded by the goverment. Atleast that is what I heard.

 

good honey and chocolate in the w. ghats, good cheap lightweight stainless cooking pots and kashmere wool stuff. Himalaya also have a rep for making some of the world's finest hashish.

Kerala: Still using heavy dugouts and "not-dugouts" (logs lashed together into monos and ketturmarans - is malayalam the language from where catamaran comes?) for fishing. sloooow boats. some sailing with lateen, many paddling with a split bamboo. plywood is 600Rs for a 8'x4' 3mm. there are long tall skinny outboard ~25' ply boats covered with 3-5mm of something that might've been glass mat but I'm told it is not but "bly-ver" or something - for fishing with kerosen light about a mile off shore. I think they use diesel or kerosene in the petrol for lube, is this workable? Smells bad. There are boats made by sewing together planks edge on edge with coir (coconut fiber) rope, which is also laid like a sausage on the inside of the seam, under the x stitch. This, and the wood, is impregnated with cashew oil I am told, and another told me there was rice flour in the oil.
such are ~30' row boats made, with upturned, tall bows - like the viking ships but more freeboard, fatter lower down and vertical sides and much heavier and round not so V'd ends - and backwater sailing and paddling canoes. I was told an old but useable canoe like this was 10k Rs (sounds a lot to me), a motor ricksha (yellow 3wheel taxi) was possible to get for 5k, also old but useable.
Within a class of boat and within an area the boats were very similar.

Enfields make a pleasant sound when they are able to. I don't think many indians use them, cheap honda and suzuki are available.

 

Here's something about the India gov't's concern for its citizens:

http://thecorner.typepad.com/bc/2007/04/nicholas_d_kris.html

 

Frosty, "Woodies restaurants" are vegetarian (mainly because to not be would exclude the majority of the population) and can be found in many major towns, producing good food. - Don't buy bottled water from street vendors - it is probably not much different from any nearby water source.

I am interested in one of the 3? "French" Pondicherry excisions, but 'lovely lady' seems to want to stay, based in Australia.... It is a significant advantage to have a non-resident Indian guide .

Another area I like is the Kerela coast & up, to just beyond Goa - lovely lady comes from Nagercoil.

Put an RO watermaker in your boat!

 

Booked for 5th of Feb. Phoned Royal Enfield just today actually, he said I am talking to the right man??? He can do anything for me. Whatever I want!!!

Could be useful. He has all the bikes in the showroom and I can of course try any of them , he can register it in my name in 3 days tops.

Ok no water from the street ,--knew that anyway and eat at 'woodies' What no Mc donalds,--it may taste like **** (i like it actually) but you wont get sick on a Mc sausage.

"put an RO water maker on the boat" yeah Ok!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hava a safe, profitable and enjoyable trip, Oh venerable "cold" (Frosty) one.

Beer should be OK to drink - The alcohol should kill all nasty bugs? - or at least preserve them for later.