Wooden boat construction- Malaysia

5 years ago I would not have even discussed having a wooden boat. Day after day my friend struggled with rot, constantly replacing deck planks and looking for leaks. 'Oh all part of wooden boats' he would say.

Well wooden or not I am fed up with polishing stainless, searching for 316, cleaning and polishing fibreglass,-- 'OOh whats that a scratch oh goodness get the rubbing compound out'.

When I haul out I would keep people away and never let any one do anything ,-not even antifoul.

Well times have changed my ideas, and when I sell my shiny, 316 stainlees hand railed cat I will build a trawler in wood then I can take it to a ship yard and know that it is now me that needs to keep away.

These wooden boat guys are un describable at there (long lost in the west) skills. I will be able to walk away and stay in a hotel with the fullest of confidence that it will look great at the launch.

To give you an idea of there skills-At Ratanachi ship yard Thailand across from the slip where there were many 60 foot wrecked boats lying on the mud - a hazard to navigation -totally submerged at high tide. Well I thought they were wrecks,--Nope they would wrap a wire round one occassionally and drag it out of the water and repair it. These boats had no sides in them engines just a lump of rust. In a month it was out fishing.

I am not a wood man so perhaps to me it is fantastic.

 

ASIA- Wooden boat region

I came from a family that only knows wooden boat, to me a fiberglass boat is fantastic.Until I get one my self. Then only I know the pro and cons of both.

Had seen what you mentioned a few times. Normally if the wood is Chengal, the boat builder will go for restoration.If the wood is Meranti..then forget it.

Ratanachai ship yard are quite famous actually in this region.Thai deep sea wooden trawlers are very respectable even in Malaysia.If you can get one trawler constructed for your needs as a yacht, I truly believe you can get one real fantastic boat at a fraction of Europe built cost. Thats what I'm doing in Indonesia.

 

Ari,
I have been out at sea struggling at the helm with legs apart bracing myself against beam on seas only to see passing by a Thai fishing boat with a guy on the back showering himself with a bucket. The boat was stable, as if it were the conning tower of a submerged submarine.
Mind you when you see them out of the water the aswer is easy to see. Theres far more under than out. The water line looks ridiculous when out of the water

 

Hari Raya? When was that? Just kidding..

My conscience got the better of me this year after years of self-imposed exile and I decided to spend the raya with me Mam who was in Singapore with her in-laws. All the better for me too as barely after the customary salams, begging forgiveness and wiping of tears, I hit the road to start scouting and making friends with the marine equipment suppliers. Was a good week of family, fantastic food, free lodging and feeding this boat obsession by discovering that Aqua International Marine = heaven on earth .

I haven't been to Ratanachai shipyard myself, but I have seen the result of their work. In short, the devastation from the 'fixing' that they did on a beautiful Maurice Griffith designed cutter made of African hardwood 2 years ago made things a lot worse compared to the 50 years she's spent in the water already. In a nutshell, it was a mixture of a maltreated epoxy job on the decks 'suffocated' the wood and trapped fresh water in countless 'bubbles' that can be flaked off, installation of dodgy quality wood that infected the rest of the good wood with evil looking insects, bad caulking job that let more fresh water into the bilge ... the horror list goes on and on.

For a fishing vessel, Thailand shipyards offer the most competitive prices, cheap labour and speed: fast in, quick job, fast out and back to work.. even the Malaysian vessels are hauled out in Thailand... the shipyards around Satun area are littered with Malaysian registered vessels, but for a finely made classic yacht.. it's a sin comparable to murder!

They are making efforts to up their quality. 2 months back a 118ft 110 yr old made-in-TheUK yacht was hauled out for a total refitting project that's planned to finish in 2 years time. Vessel name is "Cariad" and she's in the PSS shipyard Chebilang, Satun.

Anyways, yes Ari, there is nothing more I would love than to go and see these beautiful boatyards myself. It's great to have a partner now as going solo-female to these remote islands would've been a disaster. I boarded a Pelni bound for Makassar some years ago. I saw all the people staring at me and had a black hole in my guts that sucked all the confidence and happiness out of me. I disembarked Pelni boat and opted for a 'safer' destination. End of short-lived adventure.

Aside from travel plans this May, there are countless questions in my mind that concerns practical boat building planning that perhaps you can answer:

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

1. What are the prices of petrol and diesel now in Indo? I was passing by in October/November last year and the situation was a mess as the fuel prices rose 3 times in 2 months...

2. What about wood? With all this burning and logging, where are the better quality wood coming from these days?

3. Prices of wood? For ulin, biti, jati, etc..? Is Cengal emas obtainable in Indo? I understand that there is no such thing as 'fixed price' and it's all subject to personal sentiments, but a ballpark figure would come in handy.

4. Roughly how many cubic meters of timber am I looking at in order to build a 12m hull with deck 'sampei bisa belayar'?

5. How much are the wages per day for a normal carpenter and how much for the penggawa/ master boatbuilder?

6. Forget about technical drawings... do you reckon that the builders there are able to make me a decent enough 12m perahu pinis ala Pulau Duyong if I bring them a model? Is it worth a try or should I just forget this whim and go along with whatever that they're used to building in their area?

7. Boat engine & fittings: better deal in Singapore, Malaysia or Indo? If from outside Indo, how do I go about shipping & the honest customs authorities?

OK.. enough bombardment for now. Many thanks in advance.

p/s: yup, the hotels do have their own supply of fruits and veggies & independent of the (ir)regular everyday people shipment. My favourite sayur lady seems to be on a Hari Raya overdrive as she has yet too re-open her stall. Should Ari open kedai sayur on Langkawi, I'd be your regular customer as the hubby don't eat meat.. all the mad cows and sniffling chickens has strengthened this practice... don't blame him.

 

Boat building In Indonesia

Boat yard in Indonesia is more like just a shed under a coconut tree.The constructed boat it self are left open to the environment.Have a look at this site.There is some photo of boats under construction in Bira, observe the surrounding area.http://www.jawasoft.com/merdeka/about.html

I don't know now. While I'am there it is about RM2 to RM 3 per litre of diesel,at the same time it is RM1 per litre in Malaysia.

The wood that get burn is the one that cannot be used as timber.They are not burning the jungle, do you know the Malay word 'perun' ? Thats what they are doing.Timber had been harvested .Not even the big branches are left in the jungle.Those branches are used for the boat frame.

I don't know the prices, the variable is so big. Chengal Emas is only found on Sumatera Island and Peninsular Malaysia. In my project the wood sources and cost are left to the Kepala Tukang.It is a lump sum project. I had requested for Chengal and Resak.Not so keen on Ulin. Love to have Sono Kembang or Sena for the cabins.Sena is one type of Rosewood, considered rubbish wood in Malaysia but the texture is so beautiful and the light yellow colour of the wood with those burl really fascinate me.Sono Koling or Indian Rosewood, Amboyna is the one with beautiful dark red colour wood.Going to harvest a few Sena tree this coming month and make planks for my boat cabins..now the problem is how to send it to Indonesia..might just bring the workers into Malaysia.

About 20 tonnes will do.

RM20 TO RM 100

Duyong island boat builders are one of the best in the world.Their build quality is akin to Rolls Royce of Yachting world..how to compare to Indonesian Kijang /Unser builders ? Those Indonesian builders can read plan very well even if written in foreign language. What important to them is the drawing it self.

Normally for Indonesian built pleasure craft their fittings are done in Surabaya or Jakarta, Batam is quite a good option I heard.

 

Terima kasih for the infos.. I wish there was something I can do for you in return, hutang budi di bawa ke mati.

I got a rhyme in my head since I read your post that can't seem to get rid of... "buai laju-laju, sampai pokok sena, apa dalam baju?, sekuntum bunga cina"

>Duyong island boat builders are one of the best in the world.Their build quality is akin to Rolls Royce of Yachting world..how to compare to Indonesian Kijang /Unser builders ?

My haunch exactly.. I have the fear that they might get the overall asthetics right, but at the cost of structure strength. A Kg Ara tukang is coming to pay me a visit end of this month. I will take him on a tour onboard a duyong boat, perhaps even to Terengganu and see what his opinion is. Keeping my expectations neutral & options open, the only thing set is that would like to have junk rig.

Riau sounds like a sensible option.. not too remote & people speaking similar dialect to us. Out of curiousity, why ulin not a preference?

I'm tempted to ask if I could join in on the Sena harvest... though I got no problems diving into 45m of water, hutan is not really my element. Got to face my fears man...

thank you again...

 

Buai tinggi-tinggi sampai cucor atap..belum tumbuh gigi dah pandai baca kitab..!Memang sah hang Melayu..aku pun melayu gak tapi disebabkan forum ni dalam bahasa Inggeris..

I think it is better if you can built it in Langkawi.My problem in PD is that there is no boat builders in the 200km range that can handle my request.If what I want is a fiberglass or any other modern material, there is builders that can handle the project but sadly non in wood/timber.The Trengganu builders are out from my list because of the cost.

Those people in Riau used Johor -Riau slang..exactly like in Johor Baru. So happen the first time I'm there I went with a few Bugis from Kuala Enok..so..got to pretend and used Bugis slang instead..!The Kepala Tukang chit chat for about an hour with me in Bugis..then quietly when the others are not around I told him" Pak..aku Melayu..bukan Bugis..!" "Waduh..saya kira bapak faham.." Then only he change our conversation into malay..heh..heh..if not..too bad..yek = ya = yes is one Bugis word that I know very well..! Ulin is hard wood that is very heavy, but those wood borer toredo worm also love it..Resak is not as hard as Ulin but the sap and gum of that wood prevent the worm from boring into it just like Chengal. Meranti as hull will need real tender loving care every month.

 

The best case scenario is of course to build in Langkawi where there exists all the perks of modern life. It's a raging roundabout debate in my head over the psat months already.. Malaysia: unlimited time of stay, no need to run in and out of the country for visas, cut down travelling expenses, beauracracy hassle, logistics nightmare... none of these. Was even told that there are Bugis boatbuilders who would go to where the wood is.

But timber is priceyyyyy, same story with labour.. no thanks to some highly unsubtle peoples, 'importing' timber and workers from Indo not so easy anymore.... boatbuilders here have forgotten the sailing tradition: motorized fishing vessel not a problem. Simpler to just comission one in Pulau Duyong and leave them to their own devices and waltz off with a beautiful bateau..

All comes down to money, lah!

Attempting to sort out through all the prices of fitttings, engine, etc & narrow it down according to a "how much and when" basis. Basically would like to have enough to get hull ready, dub-dub engine in, sails on & enough for cost of living because would like to be there (where ever 'there' might be) throughout the construction... launch her and come back to 'civilization' to earn dosh again. Can live without luxury of oven, fridge, marine toilet = hole in the poop deck... I guess the levels of 'readiness' of a boat can be very subjective.

New question came up during nightly discussion with hubby last night: traditionally lateral rudders were used, also works as stabilizer during sailing. On a long keel like a phinisi, a central rudder system was eventually adopted... with hydraulics, steering doesn't involve 3 fit Bugis fighting for dear life with these big, bad-a** rudder anymore during dodgy weather.

What happens when the vessel has a curved stem & stern like the Madurese leti-leti, golekan or bago (a 'pejala' hull)? Is a central rudder system then 'carved' according to the curve? Or it is possible to somehow retain this lateral rudder system, using multihull steering hydraulic system to ease the effort?

I found a photo of aforementioned 'leti-leti', note curved stem,stern curves the same.. hull totally banana shaped. Couldn't find a photo taken from stern (sad, as this photo was taken relatively recently methinks), but suspect that rudder on portside is lowered while starboard rudder is raised. Horizontal bar across stern looks like rudder support to me.

Any ideas anyone?

 

Orang laut,-- have you sold your steel boat then?

 

If I built my boat in Malaysia:
Cost of timber per tonne: Chengal -RM 8-9k
Burmese Teak- Jati Burma RM 30k
Berlian RM 8K
Meranti RM 6K
To overcome this problem the way out is to built boat with cold moulding technic.If you are keen to built your own boat, this method will enable you to have beautiful boat with lower cost. From this forum in another thread I had come to conclusion that durian tree is the best for this task. Harvest some old durian tree and send to the mill to saw it into plank.For a 40 footer you will need about 5 big and tall durian tree, the dwarf type should be excluded..! Do you have bachang and kuinin (mango family) tree there ? Those are also real good for cold moulding purpose. If you are on tight budget but willing to built one your self, this path will cut down your cost and you can built the boat with western design and shape. I'm quite tempted to follow this path..had gathered and enquired about 100 durian tree ,50 mangoes, 50 Sena,30 Rhu,50 Kelat , 20 Leban. I had spent about one year to search for all this tree and who the owner is and how much the price. Kelat is real hard wood that can be shape while it is still wet, Rhu can be shape for long keel while it is still wet,Leban is hard and light real good for cabin and internal.
OR
Buy a used Indonesian 20-40 tonnage size sail cargo boat and refurbished to suit the new role.For sure you will need lots of lead for ballast, those boat are not built with fixed ballast.Some of those boats are about 30 yeras old..built from matured teak wood. Younger boats are mainly built from Meranti.Avoid that one..unless you can haul it up a few times a year.This will give you a real tough boat but as a yacht goes,the look might not be that beautiful. Enough for a couple to sail this Malay archipilago.To enable you to sail this archipilago is not an expensive matter..it is up to you..what do you want?.You can have a kancil,saga, Perdana or Mercedes, it's up to you.Of course they are of different class and prestige but all of them can take you to a destination safely within their ability limit.If you spend the time polishing those woods for the cabins ,lounge,pilot house..oh dear..they do shine like highly gloss furniture.

 

Agreed Ari... cost of timber alone enough to build 1 in Malaysia would enable me to obtain quantity for 2 in Indo. Price I obtained from a Bali source for teak alone was almost 1/3 of what it is in Malaysia. But 30K for Burmese Teak????? or was it typo?

This "For a 40 footer you will need about 5 big and tall durian tree..." idea of yours made me smile.. thought I was the only one obsessed enough to think up of this plan. Grandpa had a hard time convincing me not to cut down his fruit orchard in Kelantan yet... maybe for future-future building plans. I never thought that the time we spent planting together would potentially bear more than just fruits

I've got a photocopied guide to North Borneo & Peninsular Malaysia timber, very informative, sometimes TOO technical for my taste, and it's as old as our nation is (published 1957...sheesh!) Any recommendations for further reading & where to obtain?

No grand plans to circumnavigate our parabole, there's more than enough islands in Kepulauan Melayu to keep me occupied for many years within coral rich waters. In terms of a 'car-comparison', gimme a Mini Cooper. Small, compact, gets me there, durable, overall easy & not too pricey to maintain. Local version 'Kelisa' seems too featherweight. Heavy is good... heavy is reliable. If I can't avoid them, just run into 'em.Muahhahhaa...

Getting a 2nd hand vessel is well and fine with me... they don't use the same high quality, well-aged timber like they used to anymore. Might have some issues with fittings that they used... steel bolts, rusty nails and tonnes for caulking to cover up badly shaped wood. Nothing that can't be fixed over time. The plus point is that I'm afloat and able to go almost immediately. Still would end up spending the same amount as building new.

Don't know lah... I will know better when I see it with my own eyes. The only thing I can do now is to get as much informations on my fingertips regarding all the other things concerning building/ refurbishing a wooden boat.

Oh yes... when I do see 'it', any tips on how to conduct a wooden boat survey?

P/s: jack.. I think you got the wrong person

 

Yep I have. I spoke to who I thought you were yesterday. However I now know who you are !!! I should say that they know who you are but I dont know you personally.
If you know what I mean?

I love the hole in the wall too. One of my favourite achorages.

 

Ari, have something to feast your eyes on.

The interior photos that you posted before from kapal phinisi Silolona.. well, here she is again..buzz in the grapevine says she'll be coming up to Langkawi for the boat exhibition from the 24 to 27 November in Telaga Harbour.

 

Hehe jack... so close yet so far! guess we'll cross paths come time or another

Ari, stumbled on more infos concerning phinisis, though I'm quite certain you've exhausted whatever sources there are on the net already anyway.

Just in case though, log on to Kasten Marine's website, he's got some drawings of exterior, interior, deck, etc etc based on Si Lolona.

www.kastenmarine.com
/kapal_layar_mesin.htm for links to drawings
/phinisi_history.htm for stories and getting started on the whole deal.

cheers