Titebond III testing

[Boston]

ya Im all for ya on the crappy quality of ply these days
but Ild go with poplar
its easy to work
stays straight
and cheaper than birch

na
I gotta build this project so I can move on to the next
I was only going to measure the arches for as long as it takes me to use em ( which wont be long at this rate, probably Tuesday the last one will get cut up )
I saved the molds though ( they were just drywall anyway )
I could throw together a few more when Im done
maybe this time Ill use the right amount of pressure and let em sit around a while
once these first three guys are set they wont be able to move anyway as they go between load bearing columns

[Pirate Lowe]

Originally Posted by Pirate Lowe

Clark Craft sells and recommends GL 10 super epoxy glue for the entire build. It's $27 per quart 2 part equal mix.

Mfg. details:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GL-10 equal mix glue type adhesive is the best of its kind on the market today. We have had our GL-10 epoxy glue formu-lated to a thick yet spreadable consistancy so that it will easily stay in place when spread along a vertical surface. GL-10 has an approximate 1 1/2 hours pot life at 70° which is ample time for most projects. Under high stress condi-tions such as an impact, we find that the GL-10 glue line will hold fast and the wood fiber parts either side of the glue line will generally shatter, the mark of an excellent glue. Bonds wood, fiberglass, concrete, glass and most metals, is transparent to amber in color.

Equal mix
No shrinkage
Cures at 35°
Cures on moist wood
Over night cure
Contact pressure
Gap filling
Once cured can be drilled, tapped, machined or sanded.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Found a few users in here that have used this stuff. I think I'll go this route. I do want the boat to stay together. Might as well do it right.

[PAR]

Pirate L, don't worry about the Lowe's/Depot lumber, go ahead and use it. You'll be fine, considering the expected lifespan of the boat. Hell, I wouldn't even bother with 'glass sheathing it, I'd just paint it and call it a day, after taping the seams.

Considering the likely joints at the chines and rabbets, I'd use epoxy and I wouldn't use one of the most expensive versions on the market today (G-10 from West). Not that it isn't good stuff, it is, but it's way better then you need. Use Raka or the stuff from Bateau, but there's no reason in the world you need G-10, when these will do at half the price.

Slam, bam some construction grade (make sure it's marked exterior, ground contact, etc.) plywood over the frames, using Ace Hardware stainless sheet metal screws (not the deck screws at Lowe's/Depot) and some good quality porch and deck enamel (not latex, but oil based). The corners where the plywood bottom lands on the sides and where the sides land on the stem and stern (or transom) should be filled and taped with epoxy. This is all you need for a down a dirty boat that will be water tight and last several years if you take reasonable care of it. If you just left it outside with no cover, though able to drain off accumulated rain, she'd last 3 or 4 years fairly easily, with pretty much zero care.

If you kept it under cover, out of the sun, well ventilated and dry, you could get many years out of a build like this. Hell, it will not be the prettiest girl at the dance, but she'll be the kind you like best, cheap and easy to live with.

[Pirate Lowe]

Aye mate I be dancin to yer music! Sweet to me ears it be!

[Boston]

arrrrggg
Pirates

I'll go for the better looking pain in the ass every time Par
a pleasant challenge and way more satisfaction in the end
so to speak

[ancient kayaker]

Great thread. What you say about joints that hold without glue, Boston, is the answer to creep worries. I always use hardwood dowels in joints that are heavily stressed - more reliable than fasteners IMHO.

[Boston]

bingo
I always pin joints
that and if you look every joint in that frame is one form of mortise and tenon or another
Ill run a few pin through from each style to each rail at an angle and it will lock it all together just fine
that and it will stop any creeping in its tracks
I use glue but generally any joint I make should hold with or without it
and thats were the pins come in

[hoytedow]

Aargh,

Never go to sea,
Without double U Dee four-Tee,
Because then without a doubt,
Your sword you won't pull out.
AArgh!

[ancient kayaker]

I get it Boston, The glue just stops the pins from coming out!

[Boston]

if you put em in at an angle to one another then ya
they just lock the mortise and tenon work together
but on this job there is tons of glue ups
its a interior quality exterior application basic Victorian era details for the rich and famous
its work and Im having a dam good time working it

hey I just put the first skirt together ( working in the rain today )
second time around everything fit perfectly
once I had mallet'd the whole thing together I could pick it up and shake it
held together just fine on fits
no glue no pins and god forbid no screws

[IMG][/IMG]

[Pirate Lowe]

OK, this seems like a great glue to use to attach the PW to the frame and pretty much everywhere I plan to glue. I love the convenience of the mixing tip and using a standard chalking gun to apply it. System Three Gel Magic Universal Cartridge specs are listed:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
System Three's universal cartridge system that works with standard caulking guns eliminates the need for mixing, as the cartridge's dual chambers ensure the proper ratio, which is mixed in the mixing tip.
Silvertip Gel Magic is a two-part epoxy adhesive that will not sag or run. Designed for wood and other porous materials. No more measuring fillers. Gel Magic components mix into a paste that is ready to be applied to vertical and overhead surfaces without sagging or otherwise making a mess. GelMagic can be post-cured up to 140 degrees for even greater performance.

When fully cured, it is unaffected by water, oil, kerosene, and many other chemicals. It will not stain wood and is immune to fungus and rot. Ideal for stitch and glue, plywood, strip built and glued lap strake construction. As well as a high strength, gap filling, waterproof adhesive for general woodworking and architectural applications.

Lap Shear Strength:

Polyester Laminate: 2800 psi
Concrete: 1100 psi
Wood: 1800 psi
Aluminum: 2200 psi
Galvanized Steel: 1900 psi
Copper: 1700 psi

Strength: Good
Below Water Line (yes/no): No
BRAND: System Three
Material: Epoxy
Number Of Parts: Two Part
Rate Of Cure: Medium
Type: Adhesive
Usage: Bonding


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It says its not recommended below the waterline, but as the red highlighted says, its perfect for stitch and glue, am I not correct in thinking that EVERY seam in a stitch and glue hull is below the water line? WTH? Seems like someone needs to make up their mind.

[ancient kayaker]

Originally Posted by Pirate Lowe

... System Three Gel Magic Universal Cartridge specs are listed... System Three's universal cartridge system that works with standard caulking guns eliminates the need for mixing, as the cartridge's dual chambers ensure the proper ratio, which is mixed in the mixing tip. ... When fully cured, it is unaffected by water ...

Below Water Line (yes/no): No ...

Bit of a contradiction there! I have not seen any below the waterline caveat for this product. I've used it below the waterline without problems (so far) but not in boats that remain in the water for extended periods, so for me it's not a real worry.

However, where did you find the “not below the waterline” data” for GelMagic? I thought that only applied to their 5-minute epoxy ”quickbond”, I quote from “The Epoxy Book” -

“Unlike our other epoxy systems Quick Cure (like all similar epoxy products) is water resistant, not water proof. It is fine for intermittent water contact but should not be exposed below the waterline on a boat, for example.”

System Three's cartridges are great to use but too pricey for me. Also the cartridge stops delivering when the plunger appears to be only 3/4 of the way down the tube - something to do with the inner construction no doubt - this can be a real nuisance if you're not expecting it, it runs out half-way down a seam, and it's your last cartridge. Happened to me!

I now use the T-88 structural adhesive which I mix in the usual way; it is a 1:1 mix instead of 2:1, less chance of a mistake, an excellent adhesive but unlike GelMagic it is not non-sagging.

[Pirate Lowe]

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...ct.do?pid=4318
This is where I found the info. I was looking in boat builder central and found the glue and did a search for more info.

I guess if I went this route I would need one or two tubes per stringer. If I got three quarts or a gallon of epoxy I could mix small amounts and mount a piece of PW and repeat. I just liked the ease of use.

[ancient kayaker]

Originally Posted by Pirate Lowe

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...ct.do?pid=4318
This is where I found the info ...

I asked System Three about that, here is their response:


[ This is not correct. Someone checked the box wrong. Thanks for catching
this. We will hammer on Jamestown. Jamestown's description (see below) is
correct:

"When fully cured, it is unaffected by water, oil, kerosene, and many other
chemicals. It will not stain wood and is immune to fungus and rot. Ideal for
stitch and glue, plywood, strip built and glued lap strake construction. As
well as a high strength, gap filling, waterproof adhesive for general
woodworking and architectural applications." ]


- so feel free to use Gel Magic below the waterline.

[Pirate Lowe]

That is great! I was wondering why the description said one thing and the other list was different.

Thanks for the help!

Fair winds and following seas mate!