Survey Questions - 1929 Elco 36'

[Tangusso]

Can anyone provide a copy of a survey report for a vessels similar to this one? I am trying to determine exactly what is included in a survey report of this type. I also need to know if the format and the items included in the inspection are standard, or if one surveyor may do a more detailed inspection than another?

Any experienced surveyors in the upstate NY area out there?

[PAR]

Yes, there can be a big difference between surveyors and the way they report or what they report.

Contact the local marinas in your area and find out who they use, who they trust and also who the insurance companies use.

Unlike most, I don't offer a "buyers" or "sellers" version. I get paid up front and the person asking for the survey gets a complete survey, like it or not, no slant, no bias, no bull ****, just the straight up, again like it or not.

I also include the type of boat, the rule(s) it may conform to, general scantlings, builder information, repair history, suggestions for future repair and maintenance and a guide through the various issues I've encountered and of course recommendations as to priorities in which these should be carried out.

Okay, maybe I'm old school and a little anal about some stuff, but that's why I get hired. You'll get the real poop, regardless of who you are.

This is the type of surveyor you're looking for, an anal, old fart who knows their crap about your particular brand of fine power cruiser. You may have to buy them a few beers at the end of the job, after they've crawled around in your slimy bilge all day.

[Tangusso]

Thanks for the advice. I will begin to call around in the morning. In the meantime, I will probably visit the boat myself as a preliminary inspection to the survey. I am concerned that I may not be able to access much of the frame work due to the floor layout.

Is it imperitive that I see every rib, or are the general condition of the visible ribs a good indication of the condition of the rest? Are there certain trouble spots on Elco Cruisers that I should look for? How large of a problem is oil saturation in the floor framing and planking below the waterline (I have seen a good many "slimy bilges" and often wondered if that was as bad as rot)?

[PAR]

A good surveyor will know the peculiarities of that model, style, era and builder. They will also attempt to access pretty much everywhere, unless there are obvious issues, which don't require them to actually climb into the muck with an inspection mirror.

Frankly, you're going to find rot, broken frames, weeping seams and other issues. This may be enough for the surveyor to just recommend the boat to be hauled and replanked, plus what else is uncovered once the planks are pulled (there's always something else, trust me).

Yes, there are "spots" or areas of concern on these vessels. My usually recommendation is to haul the boat, and pull the strake just above the garboard and one at the turn of the bilge. This will reveal the frame ends at the rabbit (the pockets, keelson, gripe and forward keel cheek pieces, eek!) and tension cracks or breaks in their usual locations without compromising the structure, committing to a lot of work or expense and you'll have a much better picture of the "real" condition of the yacht.

You must remember this is an old wooden boat and without a very recent full up restoration, she's bound to have issues. The point of the survey is to do one of two things. Ascertain her true value (which will be good in the present market) or ascertain her current condition. My surveys include both, but may don't.

Pulling these two planks is my usual first task, when I'm into a new project. I can walk away if it's a real mess without much lose or some times you'll get lucky (not very often, unfortunately) and find a well cared for yacht in reasonable shape. I hope yours is the latter. Naturally, pulling planks means you own the boat and now want the "rest of the story". Good Luck . . .

[Tangusso]

That sounds like a good approach. I want to start with trying to determine the level of deterioration with out any disassembly if possible (at least until I decide to buy). I don't suppose that you might know someone that you feel comfortable reccomending in upstate NY do ya?

[PAR]

Sadly, I'm not terribly familiar with surveyors 1,500 miles away. See if you can get the owner to provide you with previous surveys, look over the recommendations and see what has been preformed (or not). This is a good indication of the care a yacht may have received. In other words, if a survey suggested the garboards needed replacing, but they haven't been replaced, you know what priorities the owner had for the yacht.

[Tangusso]

What can you tell me about oil saturaton in the bilge timbers? How will this impact the strength of the frame? Is it even possible for wood this old to retain enough strength to make her seaworthy, or should I plan on a whole new bottom?

[PAR]

Oil saturation is a common issue, but it doesn't mean you need to replace everything wholesale.

The questions you need to answer will be most necessary once you own the boat. These would include what you want from the boat, type of repair/restoration desired or necessary, budget restraints, skills possessed verses jobbed out labor, etc.

The survey will give you a very good idea of the condition of the boat. Their recommendations may be based on a number of factors, including oil soaked bilge timbers.

[Tad]

Check these guys to find accredited surveyors.

http://www.marinesurvey.org/index2.html