Substitute for Yellow Fir

[rusty377]

I am starting my first true small boat from plans and need some assistance. I live in South Carolina where the wood selection for boat building is questionable - even though I live on the coast. I am building a Big Lassie from dreamweaverboats.com plans but there is no (Alaskan) yellow fir available here. Any suggestions for stringer and ribs (steam bent) from a substitute material that may be available in the southeast? Is pine a reasonable substitute for both? Is aspen a suitable wood? How about red oak for ribs? I have perused the local Lowes and find only "whitewood?",red oak,cyprus, and something marked "SYN" in a 2x10which I cannot tell what it is but price is only $16 for a 16 footer? It is a bit bewildering I must say. Is there perhaps a chart that shows substitution for woods from west coast to east coast (including bendability,etc?

Thanks,
Rusty

[Boston]

Red oak can have a really week dark grain and might give you trouble. You might consider Poplar its cheap and works well, its also available in long lengths.

just a thought
B

[rusty377]

Boston,

Thanks! I will check out poplar at Lowe's next time. I didn't notice any long lengths though - but could be. Do you know the wood I was mentioning with the "SYN" label on it? It has really clear grain and appears to be centercut- I just don't know what kind of wood it could be.

Thanks again,

Rusty

[Boston]

synthetic most likely
definitely to be avoided
is it that white stuff that breaks across what should have been the grain and doesnt look like it has a grain once broken
thats an engineered lumber and its probably half plastic
you might not bother with lows
call a local mill and you will find poplar for about 50 cents a foot probably less
if your talking any substantial quantity then definitely just go straight to the mill

good luck with your project
B

[rusty377]

Problem is we don't have any mills around here like available when I lived in Virginia- the closest "wood supply" is 200 miles away and not very accessible. The wood labeled SYN is not synthetic- as in porch decking material- it is actually wood with true rings and occasional knots- unless I don't know what you mean by synthetic- guess I will have to ask them at Lowes.

Thanks,
Rusty

[Boston]

hmmmm
news to me
I dont know what kind of wood that might be then

if your talking about buying say 1000 feet of lumber your going to save enough money to make it worth your while and do a little driving

last time I bought white oak I drove about 500 miles each way to the mill and saved about $6 a foot

can make a huge difference in the cost of your project

B

[alan white]

No matter what, wood from a mill is the solution. It should ideally be air dried for one year for each inch of thickness, and the species you need should ideally (in your area) be white or live oak or southern yellow pine. That said, few builders can depend on such luxuries any more these days. At least mills are found almost everywhere. Sometimes, Lowes or Depot has something usable in an emergency for some small detail, but otherwise seek out a real wood mill.
Be patient and do some phone work. The wood is out there but not advertised. You have to find it on your own.

[Boston]

I got great white oak mills if you are willing to drive
poplar to but you must be willing to drive even farther
I have a personal aversion to pine so I seldom buy the stuff
if you have a Austin hardwoods in the area they have poplar for about $1.50 a foot ( ouch ) and white oak for about $7 ( double ouch ) but both these woods are available from a mill for a fraction of the cost

you will need to drive for it but its worth it

Allan is right I should have mentioned the local oaks in SC

my bad

best of luck
B

[PAR]

In the southeast US, you have a lot of choices, but Lowe's and Home Depot aren't the places you'll find it, until you know what to look for.

Douglas fir is the first thing that comes to mind, as does SYP, and some of the cedars.

The USDA produces a document (available for download) called "General Technical Report FPL-GTR-113" It will tell you the properties of all the common woods, import and domestic used in the USA. With this and some research you can find substitutes for the wood called for in the plans.

Given the choice between white and live oak, take the live. Most poplar now is white and not very good, though it's used for lots of stuff, not especially rot resistant.

This is the best online database I´m aware of:

http://www.thewoodexplorer.com/

Regards
Richard

[rusty377]

thank you all folks,

I did find a local lumber supply place - that is well hidden! Just have to go and see what they have available. A local guy told me they carry fir but not really boat lumber.


Thanks again,
Rusty

[Boston]

there is no real difference except quality and most mills offer the good stuff if you ask for it

by the way getting to know the mill rats is a real plus

best of luck
B

[dskira]

Originally Posted by Boston

Red oak can have a really week dark grain and might give you trouble. You might consider Poplar its cheap and works well, its also available in long lengths.

just a thought
B

Boston, I am sorry to disagree, but poplar will decay very fast. It is tempting due the grain pattern and size, but it is not a wood recommended for boat.
The ponderosa pine, very sofisticate name for commun pine, very good, durable, take the fastening well, the glue well, and can be of quality the best choice ($3 BF) Find in great length and nivce grain pattern
Now, oak even red, can be a solution. If choosen the red species a thouroughly bath of kerozene and linseed oil will be recommended.
If using epoxy, the treatment is of course not recommended.
White oak is expensive (around $7 BF)
Take the glue very badly, but the fastening very well.
Now an other wood nice for that, but also careful of decay is ash. Well vernished it last for ever. the price is good ($2.5 BF) Take the glue very well as the fastening.
Never goes to any big store for your wood. They are twice the price and the quality is questionable.
You have plenty of lumberyard anywhere in the US. Just research thourouly and stay away from Lowes or Home Depot. Even do not buy tools over there, nor the fastening. Nothing, just forget they exist.
Cheers
Daniel

[rasorinc]

long leaf yellow pine is good for boat building as is Black locust which is th strongest US wood and does not rot, and both grow in the south. The Glen- L boat design site has recommended lumber.

[Boston]

ya its hard to get black locust in any appreciable sizes though, although Ive not really spent that much time looking for Black locust so it just might be that Ive not found it yet. I did find a guy with a mill in Phili who had some cheap I was thinking of ordering some from just to have it laying around. I kinda a dork about having a few piles of wood handy at any given moment

Yellow Poplar or Tulip Wood has about the same rot resistance as pine as far as I am aware of
I suppose I could be wrong about that but from what I can remember its about the same and I saw the stuff regularly way back when out on the Cape
except poplar has way less waste involved and is cheaper to begin with at >$1 a foot or there a bouts and it doesn't twist like a bitch either