Strip-building with a pneumatic nailer.

[LP]

I'm looking at using a pneumatic nailer on my next strip build. I've seen galvanised nails and I've seen monel staples (too small). Has anyone gone this route and, if so, what kind of fasteners did you use? I think that a monel nail would be ideal if the beast existed. I don't suppose there would be such a thing as bronze nail gun fasteners.

[rasorinc]

take a look at these nails and staples. I will be using them on my build for the siding and bottom wood with epoxy and leaving them in.
http://www.raptornails.com/english/firstframe.html

[marshmat]

Those "Raptor nails" look very promising, rasorinc.
From the data on the site, it looks like they're not as strong as steel in shear, but hold somewhat better in tension. Being able to leave them in without rust concerns could be a big plus.
How does the price compare to the more conventional options?

Originally Posted by marshmat

Those "Raptor nails" look very promising, rasorinc.
From the data on the site, it looks like they're not as strong as steel in shear, but hold somewhat better in tension. Being able to leave them in without rust concerns could be a big plus.
How does the price compare to the more conventional options?

Awful expensive Matt, at least here in Europe! But worth every penny cos timesaving, timesaving, timesaving. Dont worry about forgotten staples, nails just fair the last layer of veneer, thats it. We love the stuff.

Regards
Richard

[rasorinc]

I emailed them and got a sample of 9/16 staples as I was worried about penetration into dry Doug Fir. Worked OK and they gave me a price but I cannot locate it. It didn't appear to be out of line. To offset the shear strength factor Just double up on them. They come in colors also. With epoxy adhesive + these I feel I have as strong a connection as I can get.

[pi-boat]

I had some repair work done in Turkey last year and used composite staples (not sure which brand) on three layers of 6 mm mahogany diagonally planked. The job went fast and the finish was simple as a previous poster stated - the last layer is faired staples and all.

Regarding strength, I was under the impression that the staples where only necessary to clamp the wood together until the epoxy cures and were not really a contributor to the final bond strength.

Originally Posted by pi-boat

I had some repair work done in Turkey last year and used composite staples (not sure which brand) on three layers of 6 mm mahogany diagonally planked. The job went fast and the finish was simple as a previous poster stated - the last layer is faired staples and all.

Regarding strength, I was under the impression that the staples where only necessary to clamp the wood together until the epoxy cures and were not really a contributor to the final bond strength.

Ten points...........
We use these Raptor nails in Turkey.
Regards
Richard

[LP]

The Raptor nails look like a viable option. I can see a several advantages to their use: non-ferous and lighter weight(?).

I actually wonder if a fastener between strips is required once the glue cures. With glass sheathings, moment loads and tensile forces would be carried in the skins. I see the fasteners in strip-built construction carrying shear forces only. i.e. impact forces. The Raptors sound like they would be brittle with regard to impact forces.

Any thoughts regarding the structural role edge nails play strip built construction? The original strip boats didn't have exterior (or interior)sheathings so the edge fasteners importance is significant. With glass and epoxy, I see the edge nail role reduced to clamping action during the epoxy curing process except for the possible impact with an immovable object.

For impact resistance, a metal fastener would be superior, but would they really be necessary?

[quote=LP;253144]The Raptor nails look like a viable option. I can see a several advantages to their use: non-ferous and lighter weight(?).

I actually wonder if a fastener between strips is required once the glue cures. With glass sheathings, moment loads and tensile forces would be carried in the skins. I see the fasteners in strip-built construction carrying shear forces only. i.e. impact forces. The Raptors sound like they would be brittle with regard to impact forces.

Any thoughts regarding the structural role edge nails play strip built construction? The original strip boats didn't have exterior (or interior)sheathings so the edge fasteners importance is significant. With glass and epoxy, I see the edge nail role reduced to clamping action during the epoxy curing process except for the possible impact with an immovable object.

For impact resistance, a metal fastener would be superior, but would they really be necessary?[/QUOTE]

To the first point NO. But yes until the resin cured!
To the second...NONE. If we are talking about wood or foam strip planking the resin has to carry the load. The bond is stronger than the fastener.
To the third...NO.
IMHO it is just a question of competition between metal and plastic nails and staples and the plastic wins the race.
Metal staples in a veneer composite weaken the skin, add weight, cannot be sanded and should be removed.
The plastic staples weaken the skin, save weight (they stay in place, no resin fills the hole!), can be sanded.
In strip planking you either use screws or nails as fasteners, both should be removed and substituted by dowels. The plastic stuff can stay in place.
Shear forces are not an issue (the manufacturer is not very clever to mention that), if they substitute metal nails and staples. I have´nt seen a boat design in modern composite (cold moulded or foam strip) that pre estimates such forces for nails and staples.
Just my €0,02
Regards
Richard

[LP]

Not to disregard what anyone has said so far, but has anybody sourced monel or inconel nails for a pneumatic nailer?

[Steve W]

rasorinc, ive been interested in trying the raptor nails so its good to read such positive recomendations. What brand and model # nail and/or staplers are you using and do you have much in the way of jamming problems?
Steve.

[DGreenwood]

I've been using Raptors for years. This is about the third time this topic has come up in the last few years and we cover all of this.
In the case of strip planking as a core material or cold molding, there is no doubt that they are far superior. When you go to cut hull or deck penetrations they are much kinder to your cutting tools and don't redirect your bits when you are drilling.
When the strips are glued they are done doing their job once the glue has cured so having metal in there is nothing but a nuisance.
Expensive but worth every penny.

Note: The staples are hard to get to fire right from regular pneumatic staplers. It is best to buy their stapler even though it is very expensive.
I have had no such trouble with the nail gun however.

[robherc]

One note:

I wouldn't look forward to saving much weight with the polymer nails/staples over using/removing metal ones and allowing the hole to fill with epoxy. In the end, both the epoxy AND the polymer fasteners are similar thermoset plastic polymers & likely have very similar densities.

That said, I'll probably be using these in my next build as they offer enough benefits in simplicity (and not damaging your tools) to make them worthwhile...just don't expect things of them that they can't deliver.

Originally Posted by robherc

One note:
I wouldn't look forward to saving much weight with the polymer nails/staples over using/removing metal ones and allowing the hole to fill with epoxy. In the end, both the epoxy AND the polymer fasteners are similar thermoset plastic polymers & likely have very similar densities.
...just don't expect things of them that they can't deliver.

Jepp...but I do´nt expect, I know they save several kilogram of resin. And it is very easy to understand why, the resin penetrates the veneer through staple holes much much more than just replacing them. But you´re right it´s not the main advantage, just a nice bonus and reducing the price gap between metal and raptor staples / nails.

Regards
Richard

[robherc]

OK, cool...that's nice to know!