repairing/bodging a wooden pinnace

Hi
I bought an ex navy Pinnace which I want to use as a live aboard (ok it’s not actually in my possession yet but money is to change hand soon).
I had it surveyed and this revealed all sort of problems (I got it for a good price though), the main ones being the stern post is quite badly "wasted", several planks have been rather badly repaired (mainly with filler I think) and there is also a lot of just general were and tear which has resulted in several big scratches and scrapes where water had got in between the two layers of planking.
It is made up of double diagonal teak planks on oak frames and is copper clad below the water line, I believe the stern post is a large block of oak which attaches to a steel band (which runs to the transom) & a large steel block with a hole in it that the propeller shaft comes thru' I was wondering if anyone has any experience of this sort of boat and was wondering if it was a hard job to repair, I am also unsure if this problem will hinder me moving the boat to where I live (which is a good few hundred miles by sea, like I say it was a good price!) I don’t know if is safe to sail or if the propeller will fall off or something. I spoke to the man who did the survey and he seemed to think it would be ok but was just wondering if anyone had any knowledge of these boats or perhaps a similar problem. The surveyor did mention that the propeller was stiff to turn and thought this could possibly be down to seized propeller bearings, I was worried that this could put extra strain on the stern post, so I thought I could just check and re grease the bearings but don’t know what sort it will be (off topic I know but someone may be able to help) do you think it will just be a grease pack type?
Before I go any further I didn’t buy the boat because I like timber boats any more than any other type of boat (they are all great!! but if I had found a steel one I could afford I would have gone for that- less maintenance!) I simply got it because it is a perfect size etc for my needs (I tell you this because I think what I am about to ask may well have wooden boat enthusiasts about ready to crucify me )
Where the planks have got water between them, I am concerned that the inner timbers may well be in bad condition in certain areas (the survey didn’t find any but access is limited) and this I understand to be a major task to replace any inner timbers due to the construction (particularly with it being copper clad as well). So I discussed this with a friendly local marina owner, and he mentioned putting the boat on hard standing and drying and treating the timbers, then cladding the entire hull in fibreglass and epoxy. He said that this would probably make a decent job which could well last 20 years. Unfortunately he had never done it himself (he is a purist wooden boat restorer! ) and didn’t know how well this type of repair/bodge (delete as you think appropriate ) would stick to the copper. I thought this solution would be the way I would go as all I want really is a boat that will last. I was wondering if anyone had experience of doing this or any doubts etc.
Many thanks
Ed

 

If you have the budget and the time, this could be a worth while project, but I generally recommend folks new to this type of effort walk away as fast as they can.

From the short list of issues you mentions, you should be very nervous about ownership, regardless of price (you usually do get what you pay for). Bad plank repairs, rotten stern post, questionable iron fittings below the LWL, shaft and likely other "gear" problems, moisture between the skins and whatever else was mentioned, aren't insurmountable problems, but a death nail for all but the most hearty of individuals.

In a nut shell the stern post holds all the planking ends at the back of the boat and the keel, running gear, steering, etc. It's replacement is a major job. Any running gear (shafts, struts, props, etc.) that need repair will require a fair dose of cursing and money, likely some blood and possibly a first born son or two. I couldn't feel good wishing this vessel on anyone that didn't have a great deal of experience with wooden craft, or very deep pockets and a love for wooden craft. If you are one of these two types of people, then grab her up and make her well again. If you are not quite comfortable with these types of repairs or a loving wealthy man, then run as fast as you can, in the opposite direction, hit a pup and drink it off.

This isn't intended to insult you, but a frank wake up call, from a fellow who fixes these things for a living.

 

To late im afraid!

Thanks for your reply PAR
All I can say is "oh dear" I passed the money over only last night! I hear what you say and only hope it doesnt sink on thew way back to where i live! then I hope she lasts till the summer when ill be able to take her out and see what I can do. I must be honest and admit that other people had warned me about the work that was needed, but as is usual for me I rushed staight into this one and didnt look at the potential problems carefuly enough. I only hope it doesnt end up costing me to much, (in the way of money/life/limb?? I hope not but the weather is getting worse) by sinking on the way home
I think all I can do now is follow your last bit of advice (unfortunatly abit to late) and hit a pub and hope everything goes ok for once!!
Thanks
Ed
p.s ill get a better life jacket!

 

Hope springs eternal

Hi Smoke on The Water:
Hey, PAR is absolutely correct in many ways, but the heart often overules the head when boats are concerned, and for a liveaboard you can usually get away with soft old wooden boats, especially if kept on a drying or mud berth.........not so much danger of death by sinking!

The British have many more old shoogley boats afloat than do our friends in USA, where neat and tidy and well-kept vessels are the norm. Our estuaries and out-of-the-way ports are full of pinnaces, MFVs , torp[edo boats and all manner of old warriors which are cosy homes for water-bohemians.

I have purchased plenty of old wooden boats " for a song" and some for a heck of a lot of money too, and they all have one thing in common: WORK NEEDED all the time.
Money is secondary to effort, and people like to give you paint, gear, and boaty stuff when they see you trying hard to fix old boats.

Recommend you get a cheap riverside or tidal flat berth which dries out, better still ; one which only floats the boat at high water Spring tides.
That way you minimise the sinking risk, and save on yard fees for underwaterline work.

Cheer up!

I think you will win out, and have a ball with the boat; and adventure.

GOOD LUCK!

PS You a Deep Purple fan?

 

Hey Duma Tau
Thanks for your moral support
Boats are always a heart thing for me, I fall in love with the most impractical/ugliest/prettiest (read all) boats, that’s why I’ve had about 6 in the last 5 years (not live aboards ) all in varying states of disrepair but I've had a ball in them all!
The mooring I’ve got lined up for it doesn’t dry out unfortunately but I do know that there wont be much water under the boat at most times of the year so it wont have to far to sink
Hopefully Ill be able to address the problems and make the boat safe enough for continued use on the river some time in the new year.
Thanks for your reply
Ed
P.s I do like deep purple, and it’s also the name of my speed boat at the moment and I think it’s a great name it!

 

I'm intrigued - how did this go?!

Hello!

This story sounds worryingly familar to mine.... I fell in love with an old wooden boat last Summer - a 1939 Wooden Motor Cruiser, built by Vosper... (possibly a naval pinnace).

I repaired lots of the rotten planks on the Hull... and took months to get her to her mooring in Kingston Upon Thames, and she sank a couple of weeks ago. Oooop! We're raising her on 16th August hopefully.. by wrapping her in polythene and pumping like crazy...

I hope your adventure went a bit better than mine?!

Marcus

P.S. This fibre glassing of the hull.. can that increase the chance of rot, as the wood can't breath.. or am i talking nonsense?

 

Wood doesn't 'breathe' - its dead ! It can absorb and expel moisture. Excessive moisture combined with sunlight and Oxygen, breeds rot. Rot is not good for a wooden boat.

For an old boat, an outer covering of glass and EPOXY ( not Polyester) is a good idea IF you can keep the insides dry.

 

Yes, this sounds familiar, I have seen more than a few half sunken or fully sunken hulls around Kingston on Thames. Mind you in the days of the old coal fired power station the river was exceptionally warm even in winter....

Nowhere near the number of ex Navy boats, ex lifeboats etc that there used to be moored there and of course all the later 60s' on were f/glass, steel or even aluminium.

Must say I would advise NOT sheathing in glass unless you can get the boat very very dry, probably take some months, maybe 6 to really dry. The problem is sealing in moisture which then rots the timber faster than if the wood is left alone. Common problem for sinking is the stern gland going or sometimes the bilge pump exit leaking when the boat gets too low with rain water in her. More rarely a swept down log or obstruction pierces the hull. It is important to try and match the original species of timber (if poss) in some cases as resistance to rot is maintained. Some species rot in fresh water but not sea water etc.

As a note of interest the old Thames punts were often made from South American Cedar (now on CITES list) and these do not rot in fresh water. It is possible to resurrect an old sunken punt and restore it fairly successfully. I've seen a couple of examples and helped with one found at Weybridge.

 

South American Cedar Use for Marine Applications = no

South American Cedar Toughness = Low

South American Cedar Use for Cooperage = no

South American Cedar Natural Durability = Moderately durable

South American Cedar Hardness = Soft, easy to dent

http://www.connectedlines.com/wood/wood67.htm




EN - CedarCederwoodCigar-box CedarCigar-box WoodRed CedarSpanish CedarStinking MahoganyWest Indian Cedar
http://checklist.cites.org/


They must have picked over the good bits for boats - doesn't sound all that impressive on paper.

 

Probably more a terminology issue. South American Cedar, Cedrela spp
Quote ' Similar reddish brown to Honduras mahogany, though perhaps lighter. Fairly strong and easy to work. Medium to coarse textured and normally straight grained. In behaviour and in it's attractive appearence, it is a very useful wood. Also known as 'cigar box cedar', but not to be confused with Cedrus spp. Unquote.

It has a very distinctive smell when you saw it, or sand it. I haven't seen it for sale in the UK for about 20 years but have used both solid and veneer before now. In fact in colour terms it is more like a pinker version of Honduras mahogany.

The link below to the Wood database, where it is called Spanish cedar, I merely used the UK name for the wood. It is not the same as that much inferior stuff used for cigar boxes. But you are right to question the species. If you get your hands on some you will enjoy working it.

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/spanish-cedar/