Question

[WBC]

At this point in the economy, I can not find work. I have graduated from a boat school in Maine and all I hear these days is your over qualified, I hate that.
My question for you is this. I want to start a company that is building wooden flats boats? Do you think the market will support this, other wise I am at a loss. I have very little start up monies but I have built the first boat and like many people there are some changes I want to make to the model.

So what do you think is it viable?

[PAR]

I think you should stick to building and marry someone with a head for successful business practices. I'm not trying to offend you, but frankly you've listed not having two of the three things, I think a start up must have, before a venture like this, particularly in the present economy, can succeed. If you don't recognize these two items, then you need to get married quick.

[WBC]

Well PAR thank you for your time and comments, But I am already married.

[masalai]

Paris is apparently available? - sorry at the digression but one must start with an icebreaker...

- May I suggest doing some units in international trading law and marketing and web design... Learn to use Linux as windose is too insecure and fragile and accounting and small business practice would not go astray....

Boating is regarded as a discretionary spend so will be last to recover in this economic climate, and expect a good 2 years of dismal prospects...

Another option would be to work as an intern/volunteer or low paid "gopher" - - - - go for this go for that - - - - to get some on-the-ground experience in boatbuilding - if that is your MUST....

[PAR]

Again, I wasn't trying to offend, but not having money, nor an idea of the market you're about to enter, suggests a grossly ill prepared enterprise. Not recognizing this means no business plan, etc.

Most first time businesses fail as a result of not being prepared for what's ahead. Start up cash, reserve cash, a well thought out business strategy, a few trusted people in place with expertise that supplements your budding business (secretary, book keeper, etc.), careful examination of your market, targeting a "nitch" to slice off the industry's flanks, etc. These are the things that makes businesses succeed.

The biggest failures are from, cash flow, sufficient personal and not running the business with sound practices.

My first three attempts at business failed. The first was pure inexperience at business, but I learned. The second got caught up in the recession and tax law re-write of the early 80's, where I got swallowed up by the 4% tax increase all small businesses of the era had to eat. The third wasn't really a failure as I sold the business at a profit, but I consider it a failure as I didn't continue it, preferring to walk away when I could, with a fat check.

Most boat builders are good craftsmen, but lousy businessmen. This is a common theme among all the trades. Do yourself a favor and hire your family and friends to help you out. Offer them "shares" in the "company" so you can pay them something, just not money, right away. Research the wooden flats boat market (quite a small segment, consider expanding your focus) and look at what's being offered. Find a "nitch" that you can fill that doesn't seem to be sufficiently addressed, as this is a good way to insure you have a "place" in the industry. Keep your options open (try to stay flexible) so you can "go with the flow" when market changes or industry trends "date" your model.

Find a trusted business person and ask for advice. Most small businesses fail because they make fundamental mistakes, that any good businessmen would have seen. It's difficult to stand back far enough from your own business to see the big picture clearly. This is where the trusted friend comes in. Brow beat them every so often and you'll get much better insight to how you're doing. Focus on your strong suits and hire people that have the skills you don't. You absolutely have to have a secretary and book keeper, trust me. You got way to much to do, then pouring over the books every night while you pull splinters out of your fingers. Good luck . . .

[WBC]

Thank you for your insight. I have mulled over this for several years, I know the "nitch" is very small. I have written a business plan, though a couple of years ago, I was taking a business course and the professor was retire CFO from Phillip Morris. He went over the plan and said it looked good to him. What has held me back is lack of cash. I have tools, I have the building, and I have experience.

I have plenty of friends that would not hesitate to brow beat the poo out of me when ever thee opportunity arises. I have an accountant that is a really good friend that will help and has he would even help in finding an investor.

Every chance I get I look at the product on the market. This would not be a company that could compete with say Hewes or Maverick type boats. I would not be looking to build mass quantities. Just some thing that will provide a living which would be better than what I am doing now. I also have to say that there is enough income to cover what bills I have and the income is pretty sustainable, recession proof you might say..


Just thought I would put this out there and see what people think. You two have been very informative and instead of me asking friends I ask total strangers they seem to be best for these type of subjects although Mr. Riccelli is not a total stranger but we have never formally met.

There is no problem being blunt I am all the time.

[PAR]

You sound better prepared then most start ups, this is in your favor. Commissions for new wooden, limited scope boats aren't especially frequent. Getting your name out there as one who builds, let alone designs something is also difficult.

You can hit the show circuit with your prototype and see what happens, though it's a substantial cash outlay for minimal prospects, it will get the boat seen, which is what you need.

Call up Mike O'Brien at WoodenBoat magazine and send him some drawings and photos of your boat. He might feature it in his "Designs" section, which could generate some interest.

Then of course are the traditional routes of placing ads in trade publications, like WoodenBoat. These often don't generate anything, but again it gets seen.

One way I generated interest was to build a few rental boats for a local lakeside restaurant/boat rental business. They had a small fleet of fishing rentals, but they were ugly, broken and leaking 'glass pieces of junk. I talked them into 5 new wooden boats, that would look good, perform better, so that rentals would be easier to get (everyone wants to be in a cool looking boat). I built a very simple flat bottom, little skiff and mounted a 9.9 HP outboard on it. It preformed well, was more functional then the 'glass boats, lighter and prettier. All 5 went into service with taped chines, oak runners as sacrificial bottom skids and tiller outboards. I touched up the only varnish on the boats once a year (small piece of coming), but nothing else for 5 years. At this point I pulled the fleet, repaired dings, nicks and repainted. They're still in service, but more importantly they get used daily and everyone sees the builders/designer's plate prominently displayed on the forward coming. I intentional placed it there so you'd have to look over it, across the bow, as you drive or accessed the forward storage area. I've gotten several calls and a few different projects from those highly visible plates.

The bottom line, you have to get noticed or established across a wide group of people before calls will come in. In the end, you'll probably end up like most of us, with faithful customers, who trust your work and come back again and again. I had a client here today who I've known for 20 years. I've restored two of his boats, repair a few others and after seeing my latest project in the barn, he might be interested in a new build. Okay it's taken 20 years to get it, but hell who am I to bitch if he does. One tip, be brutally honest with your customers. They may not like the frankness, but they'll appreciate the truth, which will bring them back.

[WBC]

Thanks PAR I did not think about Woodenboat, I am a graduate there also, might work. I always have thought that the brutally honest part was my biggest down fall. It seems I give prices and I never hear from them again. Hope I can return and ask more questions, I think you know exactly where I am.
I have listed the boat on CL and have gotten a lot of response but no serious buyers. When I fish her, All the time people asking questions about the boat. If I sell her then I have enough to buy a new motor and build another.

I have about 6 - 10 yrs of thought in this process

Once again thanks for your time

[PAR]

People skills are the most important element of a small business, especially one that is a low volume deal. Also, when getting started, you often have to take a knock in the head to gain a client. I've given break even costs many times, knowing I'll retain them as a client and suck out my worth on subsequent jobs. This is actually an old business trick and it works, as long as they stop pricing out your efforts on the subsequent jobs.

Most people want to find someone they can trust. At first they call around, get prices and stuff, but eventually they make a decision. Once they choose you, then it's up to you to treat them like family and keep them. After this, they become friends, they stop calling around and checking prices, which is when you can recoup some of the initial loses.

This may seem like an unfair tactic, but it's not. Tactics is tactics. On the race course I've suckered more then one guy into a wind hole, just to tack away at the last moment and leave them with useless rags for sails. Is this unfair or just good tactics? Ever fake a tack in hopes the boat covering you will make a mistake? Business isn't much different, though being deceitful isn't often beneficial (in my opinion) in the long haul, you just lose customers, though you may have made big profits for a while.

Get the boat and your efforts noticed. Maybe standing in the median strip of a major highway, near a red light, with the boat, on a trailer and you wearing a bright colored spandex jump suit, while working a hula hoop. You'll get noticed, okay probably by the local cops, but you get the point I think. Get seen, how ever you have to.

Originally Posted by WBC

I always have thought that the brutally honest part was my biggest down fall. It seems I give prices and I never hear from them again.

Be assured by an old dog: it is probably your greatest advantage !
PAR pointed it out:
They may not like the frankness, but they'll appreciate the truth, which will bring them back.

I do my business since 42 years now and almost the majority of my clientele calls me "the biggest ******* under the sun" but in the same breath "absolutely honest and reliable" That way they made better promotion than my friends!

Go ahead I have the impression you´ll manage it!

Regards
Richard

[Ike]

I know this is just adding to the choir above, but read this; The Business of Boat Building: http://newboatbuilders.com/pages/business.html

So far everyone has given you good advice.

[kevinb]

Sorry to rain on the parade, but this doesn't look to be a good time to be trying to set up a business selling boats -- except perhaps battleships :/

If I was confident about my own economic prospects for the couple of years ahead, I would be buying a boat, rather than building one myself from timber left over from my building work.

Most likely in a couple of years things will pick up. Let's hope so, anyway.