Is Poplar an acceptable choice for boat sides?

[swanheel]

I have gotten the boat buildiing fever and have settled on a vintage plan that calls for plank, scarfed sides. For weight considerations, is poplar as a wood choice acceptable? Thanks.

Originally Posted by swanheel

I have gotten the boat buildiing fever and have settled on a vintage plan that calls for plank, scarfed sides. For weight considerations, is poplar as a wood choice acceptable? Thanks.

No............. not enough structural strength, go for WRC.

Regards
Richard

[PAR]

Well it depends. Though Richard and I usually agree on most things, I'd disagree on this one. Poplar is a good wood, but it depends on which poplar you have. Yellow poplar is great stuff for planking and was commonly used as planking, but now is getting hard to find, as it's been mostly used up on the sides of barns in the mid west.

Red Western Cedar, isn't especially good as a planking stock, except in very small boats or if used in strip planking building methods. The reasons are: it's splits easily, it checks and it doesn't hold fasteners well. Most of the cedars are like this, though Spanish and Alaskan cedars are an exception.

Much depends on the building method you'll be employing and the "loading" of the boat in general and specifically the strain on the planking. You see some methods have highly loaded planking, placing it under a fair bit of stress, but this provides a strong, stiff and usually frame free hull. On the other hand, some building methods don't rely on the planking as much as other elements of the structure so, you can use weaker planking stock.

In short, what are you building? What do the plans suggest for planking stock? Etc., etc., etc. and welcome to the forum.

[swanheel]

I'm considering building a boat that will be used primarily for fishing. Mostly on lakes here in NC, Ga, SC & Tn. The old plan I saw and like is (and please forgive me if I get the terms wrong) 15.5 ft long with a 6.25 ft beam. Fairly pointed bow with about the final 4 feet of the bow curving slightly upward. I plan use a tiller drive as opposed to console. Bottom will be plywood.

I want a boat that is stable as besides trolling for bass and stripers, occassionally I like to try some fly rod fishing, so the need for standing on a stable platform.

Originally Posted by PAR

Well it depends. Though Richard and I usually agree on most things, I'd disagree on this one. Poplar is a good wood, but it depends on which poplar you have. Yellow poplar is great stuff for planking and was commonly used as planking, but now is getting hard to find, as it's been mostly used up on the sides of barns in the mid west.
Red Western Cedar, isn't especially good as a planking stock, except in very small boats or if used in strip planking building methods. The reasons are: it's splits easily, it checks and it doesn't hold fasteners well. Most of the cedars are like this, though Spanish and Alaskan cedars are an exception.

Why should we always agree, is boaring.
The poplar species I know are Populus alba and Populus tremula, both are known as the most inferior wood grown in Europe, hence used solely as chips or cellulose pulp. And therefore I would recommend it only as hardboard or paper.
The Yellow species I do´nt know, and have never seen offered.
The WRC recommendation was founded mainly on weight to strength ratio (and maybe the fact that I´m thinking too much in wood / Epoxy), although I have to agree with your statement about the disadvantages.

Regards
Richard

[swanheel]

Excuse ignorance, but what is WRC? Weren't the disadvantages expressed by PAR concerning cedar?

[PAR]

Liriodendron tulipifera is the species of poplar that I'm talking about. The European poplar species are quite different and similar to some common lumbers here, all not well suited for boat building.

WRC is Western Red Cedar, or what I call red western cedar. It's a good boat building wood, but not in thick or wide planks. It's well suited to strip planking or very small light skiffs, dories, etc.

What plans are you working from? Often old plans don't incorporate the materials available currently, not to mention advances in adhesives and building techniques. It sounds as though your hull could easily be wholly built of plywood, which would save considerable building effort, reduce seam count and likely produce a stiffer, stronger structure.

There are literally hundreds of small boat plans available,. many very low cost or free. I don't offer any free plans, but do have several very low cost ones. You'd be well advised to consider a modern set of plans, so you can take advantage of newer techniques, methods and materials.

It's up to you, but most novice builders find it easier, to cut the bottom and sides of a boat out of a few sheets of plywood, then have to carve several planks, with refined edge fitting, etc.

Originally Posted by PAR

What plans are you working from? Often old plans don't incorporate the materials available currently, not to mention advances in adhesives and building techniques. It sounds as though your hull could easily be wholly built of plywood, which would save considerable building effort, reduce seam count and likely produce a stiffer, stronger structure.

It's up to you, but most novice builders find it easier, to cut the bottom and sides of a boat out of a few sheets of plywood, then have to carve several planks, with refined edge fitting, etc.

Sound advice Paul!

Liriodendron naturally is a different subject, but has to do with poplar as much as with chives and parsley. Would be a material of choice for some reason, if ever available.

Regards
Richard

[swanheel]

The plns are from an old Popular Mechanics article written in the 50's. You're right, obviously the article doesn't cover modern materials and methods. Nothing against plywood for the hull, my desire is to make one from planks with scarf joints. At least that's what my day dreams are about. I'm not looking to have this project completed in a few days or weeks. More like a longer term retirement project.

Originally Posted by swanheel

Nothing against plywood for the hull, my desire is to make one from planks with scarf joints. At least that's what my day dreams are about. I'm not looking to have this project completed in a few days or weeks. More like a longer term retirement project.

Like this?
http://www.newfound.com/Stripbuilding%20NOTES12-05.pdf

The way to build, not hte boat!
Regards
Richard

[swanheel]

That looks like the boat Gibbs is building on NCIS! I can't find the one I'm looking at on line, but it's "something like this (generally like this):http://www.vintageprojects.com/boats/anyonesboat.pdf

[rasorinc]

Longleaf yellow pine should be your choice and is very plentiful in your area.
Your boat plan sounds like one of these dorys https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=327

It is strong, rates well against rot and holds fasteners well. It is a heavier than popular but has none of its drawbacks. I say this thinking you would use it for frames, stringers, and battens and use marine ply for sides and bottom.

Originally Posted by swanheel

That looks like the boat Gibbs is building on NCIS! I can't find the one I'm looking at on line, but it's "something like this (generally like this):http://www.vintageprojects.com/boats/anyonesboat.pdf

Did you read the last line in my previous post?
The anyones boat, I would say, is not much effort and money to build, as a contemporary proven design, but will be heavier. Let alone any resale value.
The old rule says its as much effort to build a good boat as to build a bad.
So, I would recommend to have a closer look what PAR has to offer. Or have a look here:
http://www.bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=FS14
http://www.bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=GF16

Regards
Richard

[swanheel]

Actually their "Scrambler" design is more what I had in mind.

[swanheel]

Thanks Apex1. Yes I did note the building method. thanks.