Newbie pls help guide me

[tugboat]

Lion- another good place -although its outdated is svensons.com.

just a reminder- since i happen to be the resident expert on this- is try not to get caught up in the perfect design- there arent any,..there will always be some nagging doubt as to your choice...i have built six boats in total..and i promise you- the rewards are far better than buying. you will get
1. the hull you want. (or somewhere near 90% of perfect)
2. you will pay less or the same than buying-
3. you know what you are getting since you built it-thereby bypassing potentially negligent surveyors,
4. you will learn about boatbuilding and design so when you have cravings later to build another one-and you will, you will know how to deal with them.
5. when you finally launch her- it will be one of the best feelings you ever had (except for sex)standing on YOUR own boat, feeling the water beneath you and the awesomeness of the design etc. thats when you will be reminded WHY you built one...and trust me there will be times during the build you will ask yourself what the H. E. double hockey stick you are doing!...
The effort of a build is by far better than the effort of buying...IMHO
good luck..please keep me posted...
what design were you thinking of?
Doug

Would like to add this one:

http://www.bateau.com/

Regards
Richard

[Damian888]

Hi, Im another new guy. I used to build small fiberglass airplanes for a living, but recently am very interested in building a small power boat. Im leaning toward wood construction and some fiberglass. I have looked at some funky designs, and I want to create my own. So my question is, does anybody know where do I get all the legal paperwork done, all the inspections, specifications and legal standards. I live in London Ontario.

Thanks

Damian

[tugboat]

Originally Posted by Damian888

Hi, Im another new guy. I used to build small fiberglass airplanes for a living, but recently am very interested in building a small power boat. Im leaning toward wood construction and some fiberglass. I have looked at some funky designs, and I want to create my own. So my question is, does anybody know where do I get all the legal paperwork done, all the inspections, specifications and legal standards. I live in London Ontario.

Thanks

Damian

Damian--I have built a few boats here in ontario- DO you plan to use it commercially?? otherwise -im not sure what inspection, specs, and legal standards there really is?

- you shouldnt need anything at least not that im aware of-
Transport Canada stopped registering any boats that are not for commercial use a couple years back-
it used to be that over a certain tonnage(which was estimated by you) you needed to register the vessel but recent laws changed all that--not sure why but it makes it easier for guys like us to go ahead and build one-offs.

all you do is grab a form off the TC's internet site (marine)and fill it out. take it to a Canada Customs office and for 20 bucks or less you get your license number. thats it! How you build the boat of course will be up to you. and in my opinion try to be as safe as practical with the design..of course you will need your operators certificate and know the rules of the road and the IALA (b) bouyage system. a radio operators card wouldn't hurt.
hope that helps...wood and fiberglass is a good choice. especially for a one off- whats the size and type you were thinking of??

[Damian888]

Ok, thats awesome, thanks for the quick reply, I do have another question. I looked over TC's web site yesterday, Construction Standards for Small Vessels, specifically the portion for "Hull design requirements and calculation of recommended max capacities for vessels not more than 6 meters in length". (Anything larger than 6 meters wont fit in my garage). And its border line discouraging, I mean, calculating gross load, weight and balance, center of gravity, there is even a portion that states that once the yacht or boat is complete, it is to be completely swamped for no less than 18 hours, completely flooding all compartments, supposedly this is where you get all your ballast info. Do we really have to do all that, or am I just making this more complicated than it is. I understand all this is important for safety, and I intend to apply it all if necessary. Do I need to hire a professional boat designer to draw up plans for a new boat from scratch? I am definitely going to contact TC for more info and to make sure I stay within legal limits, I want to enjoy this boat, and I definitely want to enjoy building it, I just know that paper work can suck half the fun out of building anything, so the more I know, the better I can prepare.
For the type of boat that I want, this may sound weird, considering my size limits, but I want it to be something between a performance boat and an inboard cruiser, small and compact though. I found a few designs, I will send you a link once it becomes more clear, if you want.
Also, Im looking to open a business, at least part time to start, if you are familiar with this industry, Id like to pick your brain a bit if you don't mind.

Thanks for all your time

Damian

[tugboat]

Damian- those are just TC's guidelines- albiet they are sound-- If you check - you will probably find that info is for commercial construction --or perhaps it is for selling commercial boats. If you plan to go into business you will have to go with TC's guidelines. and perhaps have the vessels inspected by a surveyor and meet certain criteria-- you know those plates they put on the back of baots that have the engine rating, the vessels weight capacity for people etc???.those are what you will need to figure out and get the stamp of approval if you go commercial!
If you dont have a lot of experience with "raw" design..pick up a copy of John Teales- "how to design a boat"

you have what i believe in mho are two options. 1. you can find an N.A. (naval arch.) one specifically who deals with small vessel design - and he can draw you up custom plans based on your criteria and he can make it to fit A.B.S or Loydds or other standards. this will be both a major expense and a hassle to find one who deals with smaller designs-- Stanley boats of Parry Sound might be able to help.
if you go with a custom design. Mcnaughton design group will do a free quote for you-
im not sure how much but from what i know- its expensive..ill send you a copy of a quote from the mcnaughton group, for when i asked for a 30 ft tug design.
. its preeeetty expensive..something like 28 000 to do a custom 30 ft boat i had asked about. maybe yours wont be near that- but they wanted 3000.00 just to rescale a boat i liked.
2. buy stock plans -glen-l, and others have good designs. at around 100-300 bucks. and you dont ahve to loft the boat out full size! the full size patterns are included.
you could perhaps modify them by increasing length and to some extent- beam if needed- but with caution and advice from an N.A. (which would be cheaper than a custom design) there are many good stock plans out there.

but i know how hard it is to find one that suits the buyer..so i learned (over about 7 years) how to design a specific type of boat.

sounds like you want something like an offshore style cuddy? but smaller?

i will try to offer what i can--there are a few people on here other than me that have a lot more experience and they also could help in the wood/epoxy/glass style.
Dsikra being one of them, apex1 might be able to offer some help- myself, Tazmann, Gonzo seems to know a lot about wooden boats i believe...
and quite a few others..and most people on here have boat building and/or NA qualifications... keep looking at posts and studying as many plans that you can find...have you any experience building a boat?..its not a pre-requisite but itll take you two or three boats before you get to be good..not trying to discourage you--its like making violins--the first ten you give away!

Doug

[Damian888]

Ok, thats a big relief, I looked it up and found this in the Construction Standards:
---------
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
APPLICATION
700. (1) This Part applies in respect of a vessel that is constructed, manufactured or rebuilt in, or imported
into, Canada in order to be sold or operated in Canada and that is
(a) propelled or designed to be propelled by an engine;
(b) permanently fitted with an auxiliary engine;

"requirements of Part 4 and Part 5 in this Standard are provided for information and are
not mandatory for the builder, manufacturer, rebuilder or importer to meet the Construction
Requirements as stated in a Declaration of Conformity.
Meeting the requirements of Part 4 and Part 5 is
the obligation of the owner before the vessel is put into service as a non-pleasure craft.

Transport Canada recommends compliance with the provisions of Part 4 and Part 5 "
-----------

Thanks for the info, I definitely don't want to pay for a N.A. to make up a new design. I have no experience building boats, always wanted to own a yacht though, so this is a start

A small offshore style cuddy is about right, Im going to look at some stock plans like you mentioned and take it from there.

Any suggestions on the type of wood to use?

Thanks

Damian

Originally Posted by Damian888

Thanks for the info, I definitely don't want to pay for a N.A. to make up a new design. I have no experience building boats, always wanted to own a yacht though, so this is a start

A small offshore style cuddy is about right, Im going to look at some stock plans like you mentioned and take it from there.

Any suggestions on the type of wood to use?

Thanks

Damian

Most probably you WILL have to hire a NA when there are no stock plans to fit your requirements.
It is not done with just "drawing" a boat, a good design is a lot more than that. And, believe me that is not to learn out of some books, one has to study that.
Stock plans are NOT the way to choose when you want to set up a business. They are licensed for ONE HOMEBUILD only. But sure one can find arrangements with the designer. But that is´nt a clever way. Every poorly made homebuilt would reduce the reputation of such a production line!

The stock plans generally recommend the material of choice (wood species), according to the method they are designed for. Most common in North America is Western Red Cedar for strip planking and cold moulding.

To your idea to set up a boatbuilding business:

The famous NA Tom Fexas once said

...to make a little fortune in boatbuilding you have to start with a big fortune....

If your wallet is much smaller than your cars trunk you should think twice about that.

When saving some money is your main motivation to build your own, take care! More often than not, the homebuilders end up at about the same cost a off the shelve boat would have had, Especially when the quality is the same.

Regards
Richard

[Damian888]

Thanks, I will definitely stay in touch with Transport Canada throughout the project, one way or another its a learning process for me.
Now about the business, I was thinking something more along the lines of a service, "structural repair, fiberglass/aluminum". There is competition, but competition means customers, at this point Im doing market research, no point opening the doors for a small customer base. Like everything else in life I guess, its a process, means nothing till you see the money

Originally Posted by Damian888

Thanks, I will definitely stay in touch with Transport Canada throughout the project, one way or another its a learning process for me.

TC is not what you want. In GB their rules are not valid. And for a homebuilt you do´nt need any of them, not even CE cert.s.

If you setup a business you MUST be in compliance that is a different animal.

Regards
Richard