New Here, Hi. Want to Build a Plywood Kayak

[fraggin]

Thanks for the advice.
I had thought about cartopping my potential kayak, but as it turns out, I see myself eventually owning at least two if not three. I have already located a trailer so cartopping them will not be a factor.

As far as my other requirements, I will have to admit that its been over a year since I have been to the coast even though its only a 2 hour drive. I guess I Could dismiss the requirement of having a kayak that could handle the surf, but, it would be nice if I found myself on a trip to the coast to have a kayak that I could put in the ocean.

Secondly, most of my fishing is done out of town on a smaller lake where my family has water front property. It's also a great lake for sight seeing, wildlife watching and exploring with a total of about 20 miles of shoreline. So, it would be nice to have a swift enough kayak just to navigate the shoreline in a day as well as have the ability to try out some of the popular fishing spots along the way.

I'm always dreaming up new expeditions to take, but these aren't the 5 month long kayak journeys that some of the hardcore kayakers fantisize about. Three or four days of camping/hiking/boating/fishing, etc is about the longest expedition I can get away with if you take my job/family into account. I'm also accustomed to minimalist and primitive camping/hiking and have walked off into the horizion in west texas with a sleeping bag, a hammock and essential survival gear packed in at less than 40 pounds and managed to survive for a few days so I'm accustomed to packing light.

I'm not really sure how to analyze a boats ability to paddle upwind, I have used small paddle boats on the lake before in which there was simply no fighting the wind if it was over 10mph. I suppose my method to overcome this kind of scenario was to paddle close to the bank just for safety measure.
I'm new to this idea completely, I have only been in a kayak once, and it was a rental at a state park. I spent all day paddling and immensely enjoyed it even thought it was nothing more than a plastic tub pointed on both ends with a seat.

I have given the idea of plans vs. kit quite a bit of thought, and I've decided that since many of the plans have you transfer the hull lines based on an offset, and since I've no experience in boat building, I will certainly got with a kit first. I am also thinking that I will buy some sheets of okoume and trace the parts on the kit onto the okoume so I will have a second kayak in queue.

I'm not a professional woodworker by any means. If I could make a living at it, then I would certainly change my status.

As for being bitten by the boat building bug, I'd have to say it's a compelling desire. I have been known to become compulsive about project ideas, but this is the first time I have tried to dismiss a project idea with no luck. It feels almost as if this is something that I MUST do...

[rwatson]

Good advice on canoe design at

http://gorp.away.com/gorp/publishers/ics/how_cano.htm

[fraggin]

Thanks for the link and advice.
After reading a bit more, I'd have to say that a strip plank kayak doesn't seem so intimidating. It appears that there is a lot of cutting and prepwork with a strong back, but otherwise, the construction seems simplified and straightforward. I would actually feel more comfortable building a strip kayak from plans than a stitch and glue from plans. It seems as if the strip plank method would be more forgiving. Am I naieve in thinking that I would be able to pull off a strip plank kayak as my first boat building project? Or should I stick with a Stitch and Glue Kayak kit?

[rwatson]

If you are pretty comfortable with woodworking, a strip plank shouldnt be a real problem.

My experience is that strip planking is one heck of a lot of work, Just bloody tedious.

If you want to get on the water quickly and easily, plywood is the go.

If you are a masochist, or you have to have that rounded timber look, or someone is paying you for your time - go strip planking,

[kengrome]

Here's one of my recent designs, an almost 16 footer with an open cockpit design like a surf ski. At first it started as a skin-on-frame design but later I decided to build it in 4mm plywood.

Although the cockpit is open the coaming is high and designed close to my body in paddling position, so it should shed waves without needing a skirt. I paddle in the tropics so I didn't want a skirt -- but I didn't want the cockpit to take on any more water than necessary either --thus the almost form fitting coaming. I also like my knees higher than is possible in some common kayaks so this boat should be a good fit for me.

It is supposed to be really easy to build. It has a peaked deck that's a perfectly straight line from the high points on the stem and stern, and this will make deck building a piece of cake. The cockpit opening will be cut out of the deck *after* the coaming has been installed. This makes the coaming a structural component and eliminates the need for some internal stiffeners.

The angled bulkhead at the front of the cockpit serves as a footrest, and the angled bulkhead behind the paddler serves as a backrest. There are two more bulkheads half way between the ends and the angled bulkheads to create sealed airtight flotation compartments in the ends of the hull.

I plan to use a simple foam pad for a seat in order to keep my weight as low as possible. I'm leaving 6 inches of forward / aft space in the cockpit in case I have to sit a bit forward or aft for the proper balance. I'll use foam pads to fill in this space and 'wedge myself in' so I feel snug and comfortable.

[woodrat]

skin on frame is fast and cheap and fun. use artifiical sinew from the leather supply store for lashing everything.

I have paddled a night heron and I think it is nice boat (i paddled a strip built one) but it is not easy to turn in tight quarters. The Arctic Tern is a very nice boat, but I would stick with the 14' version. I think the 17 is too big all around for my tastes.

I've built two skin on frame kayaks, one designed by a friend and one a replica of a west greenland boat in the national museum of Finland. I paddle a NDK romany as my work boat.

[ancient kayaker]

Just a word on different construction techniques and design flexibility:

For stitch and glue you must have accurate dimensions of the ply planks when flat so they form the correct hull shape when stitched. You can't modify the hull at all; you might expect that increasing the length of the planks by say 20% would simply increase the hull length by the same amount but it doesn't work out, the shape is affected in the other dimensions, although this may be less evident in long skinny hulls like kayaks. The hull shape is determined entirely by the plank shapes and the forms are just temporary props to support the planks while assembling. The inside of a non-professional-built stitch and glue hull is rarely pretty unless you are very careful, but its mostly covered by the decks in a kayak. In a canoe that's what you will be looking at when you are paddling.

For strip planking the hull shape is determined entirely by the forms and their position on the strongback. This means that you can work directly from the dimensions of the hull and allows you to modify the hull somewhat. Accuracy of forms and strongback is paramount. There are several different methods of applying the strips, top-down, bottom-up, and hybrid, which affects appearance and sometimes level of difficulty. You will likely spend more time sanding than anything else and glassing is essential to provide cross-grain strength. It seems a shame to me to spend all that time on the inside then cover it with decks; but a canoe in this construction is pretty both sides ...

Glued lapstrake construction also uses forms in a similar way to strip planking and allows you to build a ply hull with a measure of design freedom. Again it is pretty both sides; I haven't built one but there are several books.

Skin-on-frame boat designs are also easy to modify, they are also easy to build and very light. They are a lot tougher than you might think.

I prefer to build ply hulls using chine logs instead of glass tape and epoxy fillets inside the seams and I omit the glass and epoxy for lightness since there is adequate strength in the ply and seams. Almost as light as a skin boat ...

[fraggin]

Buy skipping the glass and epoxy, how durable is the boat with the okoume exposed? How long can you expect a ply kayak to last without glassing the hull?

[soquetero]

How do you post a question in this forum? Thank you. Dennis

[ancient kayaker]

Originally Posted by fraggin

Buy skipping the glass and epoxy, how durable is the boat with the okoume exposed? How long can you expect a ply kayak to last without glassing the hull?

I don't know; my boats have been self-designed while I learned about boat design (I am a retired electrical engineer with far too much time on my hands) so the first boats were learning experiences. One learns more by failure than success ...

However, my current wood canoe is a delight, well under 20 lb so I can carry it in one hand without effort, it is easy to lift on or off my minivan, fast and effortless to paddle, lots of space and it accommodates the frailties of age better than my kayaks. Because it is so light it is easier to treat it with care. It's also the only boat I've had that gets compliments.

I'm a day paddler. I carry my baby over the beach, place it in the water and get in, reverse the process when I'm done. Scraping over the occasional submerged log leaves hardly a mark. The only sign of wear from one season of use is some tiny dents on the gunnel from the roof rack - I use foam pads now so that should not get worse.

Interestingly, my factory-built plastic kayaks have far more chips and scratches on them. They are three times heavier so they get battered while I struggle to get them on/off the roof rack, and they are harder to get in/out of so I have to beach them.

Unless you do the whitewater thing or like to assault stony beaches frequently an un-glassed boat comes to little harm from use. Water isn't particularly abrasive.

I would definitely glass a boat intended for more arduous use, also a larger boat that would be left floating for long periods.

[rwatson]

thats the truth ancientK, wood by itself is a miracle product.

Hell, the indians only used birchbark. The lightest of course is fabric covered,

The only downside, is that most kits expect epoxy on at least the chine joins. If ya gotta mix up the goo for that, then you might as well go the whole hull and get full structural benefit, and avoid that crappy fairing job where the cloth finishes on the outside of the hull. And if you go the whole hull, you might try for clear glowing wood finish for looks.

Commercial craft are always far heavier, and once you try a lightweight self built model, you will never go back.