Mirror 16 foot Sailing Dinghy

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by goolawah, Jun 6, 2006.

  1. martinpook
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    martinpook Junior Member

    Mirror 16

    My friend and I have just bought a Mirror 16 on ebay. It all seems to be it good nick if somewhat used. I'll get out the sails to check for a number. Reading through this thread has been very interesting and instructive.
    I was told a while back that although Barry Bucknall built the first Mirror 10 it was in fact not very good and Jack Holt was hastily summond to put it right.
    Our boat will be sailing in Poole this summer
    Martin
     
  2. joz
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    joz Senior Member

    Are there any Mirror 16's sailing in Australia?
     
  3. goolawah
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    goolawah Junior Member

    You bet! There are several in Brisbane. I don't know about other states.

    Would you be interested in acquiring/building one?
     
  4. joz
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    joz Senior Member

    I am looking at it as a possible consideration to which I would like to get back into sailing later this year or early next year. I am looking at a faw dinghies and this one is one of them.

    these classes are what are under considertion as well as the Mirror 16 .

    * Pacer Class
    * Mirror Class (10'0")
    * Heron Class
    * GP 14 Class
    * National E (Lazy E) Class

    I am looking for a design that is both for saturday racing and also dinghy cruising as well and I would like a real boat in wood. I haven't made a final decision as yet and I would like to be a re-build job so I can get more experience in boat building as well.
     
  5. martinpook
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    martinpook Junior Member

    Interesting. I had to look up one or two of these - National E appears to be an Australian boat, at least I can't find a UK reference. The Mirror is bigger and has plenty of room to lie down on a flat cockpit sole.
    The Mirror has great stability from very hard chines and a good turn of speed.
    Mine has no number but must date from the sixties.
    Goolawah has said that he is taking the lines off, something I might do myself. I did this with a West Wight Potter. I think that the skin of the Mirror is made in one piece and then stitched into shape after which all the bits are fixed inside - I'll be delighted if someone either confirms or disagrees with this, but I'll be damned if I can think how the tortured shape of the bow can be obtained otherwise - it is very similar to a Selway Fisher 'Beaver' - www.selwayfisher.co.uk
    We will be sailing our Mirror 16 named 'Rhapsody' after painting with Blakes rhapsody blue (Gershwin, but my mate is into that sort of thing)
    Martin Pook
     
  6. goolawah
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    Location: Brisbane, Australia

    goolawah Junior Member

    Until recently we had a Mirror 10 and a Mirror 16. Have just sold the M10. It was really too small for two ' mature' adults to sail comfortably. The M16 is a much bigger boat with plenty of room for four, excellent self-bailing capability and a flat floor to make camp-cruising more practical.

    You will no doubt be aware that the M10, M16 and Heron were all designed by Jack Holt. The 125 is an Australian derivative of the M16.

    As with the other Jack Holt designs the M16 is designed to be easily built from a kit. Unfortunately this means that there are no plans available. We have a project under-way, with the permission of the copyright owners, to 'reverse engineer' the plans from the information and boats that we do have. This has been held up for a while as the task had reached the limit of my capability. It is now moving forward again through the efforts of an experienced CAD expert, based in Brisbane, who intends to build one. I just heard from him yesterday and he is about to start building a scale model to 'prove' his plans.

    It's hard to imagine that Brisbane is the only place in Australia to have actively sailing Mirror 16s, but it may be so. I know of two possibly for sale but I imagine freight costs would preclude that possibility if you want one in Melbourne.

    More on the progress of plans as it progresses.
     
  7. goolawah
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    goolawah Junior Member

    Despite the fact that we lack the plans, we do have a a complete set of measurements and a copy of the building instructions.

    The main hull components that form the shape are two panels on each side (i.e. a side panel and a bottom panel), and one forward bulkhead which forces the bow curve. There are also a central spine and carefully shaped 'floor webs' or ribs spaced at 300mm intervals along the full length of the boat.

    Obviously the floor panels and other internal components also contrbute to it pulling together to the right shape.

    It will be great to see some new ones under construction.
     
  8. martinpook
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    martinpook Junior Member

    I should have said we'll be sailing it this coming week. I will be very interested to see what happens. I have built about thirty boats using taped ply and am an experienced Autocad draughtsman. The other project I have on hand is repairing a National Swordfish dinghy - Uffa Fox design built by Fairey Marine in hot molded veneer, this one dates from 1956 - particularly interesting is that the top third of the mast is wood, the rest being aluminium.
    Martin Pook
     
  9. joz
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    joz Senior Member

    Goolawah

    Have you considered something like advertising as such to find out if anyone in Australia that has such boats in their backyard to which they haven't use in years to which could be bought rather than rotting away.
     
  10. Ozducati
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    Location: Brisbane

    Ozducati Mirror 16 #189

    Martin,
    Despite the way it looks, the bow of the Mirror 16 is completely developable from a flat panel. The resulting shape is a section of the surface of a cone that has its axis pointing down towards the bow and is angled across toward the outside of the hull. Simple once you see it, but creates a beautiful curve!!!
     
  11. martinpook
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    martinpook Junior Member

    Mirror 16

    Yes, I accept what you say about the shape. We have now sailed our boat for the first time which was good, down the Wareham river with my Johnson outboard firing on one cylinder, and I am now modifying the mast layout to make it easier to step. The present mast is made up from two and is quite heavy. I enquired the price of a new one £500! with boom and rigging £800.
    There seem to be quite a few of these boats in Oz but they are like rocking horse poo in UK
    Martin
     
  12. Ozducati
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    Ozducati Mirror 16 #189

    Here's where I'm up to so far....... this is a rendering of the 3d AutoCad model that I have created.
    I have based the overall hullsize on dimensions from the Class measurement sheet, so it should be pretty close to the original.
    Ostosix has kindly offered to send me the profiles of the underfloor ribs which will be invaluable in generating the curvature of the bottom panels.
    Reading between the lines of the assembly manual, I am guessing that the 'spine' under the floor was made from 4mm ply strengthened with 3/4" square timber around the edges. Can anyone confirm this?
    Any information that anyone may have on the stock sizes of timber that lie under the floor would be appreciated.
    I spoke to the people at Glascraft Marine in Brisbane today (they were distributors of Mirror 16 kits during the '70s) and after a scrounge they found some old sales literature which they are going to fax to me. If anyone is interested in a copy, please let me know.

    Comments, criticism and advice are all welcome.
     

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  13. joz
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    joz Senior Member

    Rod

    Are you re-producing plans for the Mirror 16 to be built for the home builder where by you can race and also be able to cruise and sleep in the cockpit under a boom tent?
     
  14. Ozducati
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    Ozducati Mirror 16 #189

    G'day Joz,
    What I am trying to create is a set of plans/patterns to reproduce the Mirror 16. The closer I can get it to the original, the better. Once they are complete and proven, then I intend to make them available to whoever wants to build one.
     

  15. joz
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    joz Senior Member

    Rod

    Thats cool if you could have the cruising option included I would consider such a design to which gives me another option on top of racing.
     
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