Mirror 16 foot Sailing Dinghy

[goolawah]

Good to hear from you Bill. Looking forward to seeing some pics when you can.

We had a nice outing yesterday with our Wooden Boat Association to Coohiemudlo Island http://www.coochiemudlo.net/. It was a lovely sunny day with light north-easterly breeze. We had two Mirror 16's along - "Lulubelle" and "CLII". The owner of Czarina II crewed with me and after our two M16s had gone for a sail further out in Moreton bay we all met up for lunch on the beach.

One of our members has a cottage on the island where he is building a David Payne designed 16foot Canoe Stern motor launch. http://www.payneyachts.com/motor_launches.htm It will be a beautiful boat when finished.

On the way home I called in to see progress on M16 "Czarina II". The bottom has now been cleaned up, repaired where necessary. and fibreglassed. It won't be long and she'll be ready to turn over and get the topsides fixed up. Then we'll have three M16s sailing regularly.

[ancient kayaker]

goolawah, I've just googled "mirror 16 dinghy" and found just one result apart from references to some of these postings; I included the quotes. Here it is:

http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=10194721

It has some good info on the Mirror 16 including some thoughts on why it expired. It was valuable to me as I was considering using some of the same constructional features in a design of mine, and now I know better.

[odimarines]

If any one has any information how to find a person please let me know

thanks

[goolawah]

Originally Posted by ancient kayaker

some good info on the Mirror 16 including some thoughts on why it expired.

I agree that the construction method lends itself to decay and rot due to the lack of ventilation. I'm not sure that you can make the connection that this was the reason for it's demise. The Mirror 10 became, and still is, very popular and this difference in popularity developed long before the issue of decay in the Mirror 16 would have become apparent. The main problem with Lulubelle was due to structural damage apparently due to excessive lateral force on the centreboard, not rot. The construction method presented difficulties in repairing this damage leading to a series of unsatisfactory "patch-up" repairs.

In our more complete refurbishment we have added 16 inspection ports. After sailing we are meticulous about draining and sponging out any water, and leaving the ports open for ventilation.

This, combined with the use of modern epoxies, should keep her sailing for a good while yet. (Along with others in our small, but growing, international fleet)

I think the lack of popular take-up of the Mirror 16 is more likely due to -

1. It represents a much bigger, more complex construction task that many amateur builders would have wanted to take on. (Even as a pre-cut kit).

2. I suspect that, as a weekend camping boat, it suffered competition from various trailer sailer designs (Hartley 16 in our part of the world) which offered more comfort and convenience, having a cabin, and looked more like a boat in which you could sleep overnight.

3. One of the features we find attractive is the roominess of the M16. It is very comfortable sailing for 3-4 adults whereas our Mirror 10 is a squeeze for just 2. While we are not into racing Lulubelle, other Mirror 16 enthusiasts love racing. My impression is that Jack Holt came up with a design that provided a roomy hull, and a construction method that made it relatively easy for an amateur to achieve a very efficient hull shape (for racing). This has led to somewhat unconventional appearance that might not appeal to some (Except Mirror 16 enthusiasts, of course).

4. As we all know, the cost of building a boat, especially a sailing boat, lies not in the plywood but in the paint, spars, rigging, sails etc. This seems to increase at something like the cube of the length. Thus, if you spent $1000 building a 10 foot boat, you would spend around $4000 on a similar boat of 16 feet. (It would probably be even more, but it certainly would not be a directly proportional $1600.) This would place the Mirror 16 in a whole different target market that probably wanted either more serious racing capabilties, or more serious camping capabilities, for their money.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see whether the re-launched Mirror 16 finds a following, once we have finished re-creating the plans.

[Barrie Skelcher]

The decline in the M16 started with a disasterous National Championships in the early 1970's when a fleet of about 25 boats were allbut 2 capsized. After this a number of participants sold their boats and the M16 gained a reputation for being unstable. This was unfair. The boat is over canvased but designed for quick reefing. The problem was that the genoa reefing gear jamed on all the boats. However the fault is easy to cure.

After that interest wained, (I was on the Class Association Cttee at the time). There was also concern about water getting under the floor and the fragility of the hull. Both these problems can now be overcome. Water mainly gets in under the floor through leaks in the centrecase joint. This is simple to cure with a strip of tape epoxied over the joint.

The other factor was the Wayfarer which was then adopted by most RYA recognised sailing schools as a good beginners boat. With so many people learning in the Wayufarer they tended to buy one when they had completed their course.

Barrie Skelcher

[POLLYMIRROR16]

Hi all,
Just a quick note to thank Barrie for the information which will make the restoration of NEMESIS a whole lot easier for me to complete, many thanks also to those others of you who are putting in a lot of time an effort into this project of getting the Mirror 16 back on the board. I am still in the gathering of materials stage, however I have so far got together 8 sheets of 6 mm marine ply (9x4ft) for any patching that need to be done, and 6 cans of oxford blue yacht paint along with 4 cans of yellow yacht paint! (all donated by a local boat yard owner and friend that has taken an interest in my project but does not wish to be named) so I at least sort of know the final colour scheme. I have also just got my trailers back from the welders where they have undergone some major surgery and are now road worthy, but will they fit?.
Time will tell
Best regards to you all
Terence

[goolawah]

Good to hear of your progress Terence. Looking forward to seeing some more pictures.
I attended our local Wooden Boat Association last night and picked some information that was new to me.

I thought it might interest other Mirror 16 enthusiasts, so heres the link.
http://www.125assoc.com/history.asp

Plans progressing slowly....

[Darryl Riley]

Originally Posted by goolawah

Sail Loc Boat Name/Status
152 OZ CLII/Sailing (CLII is 152 in roman numerals, if you hadn't noticed)
179 OZ Lulubelle/Sailing
196 OZ ??
198 OZ Czarina II/Under restoration
258 UK Nemesis/Under restoration

If anyone wants to let me know their details I will add them here.

Hello Just joined the group, bought a mirror 16 last year done some repairs to it and sailed it this year. It sails beautifully single handed with a reef and is still quite quick. By the way it is No 3 and it's in the UK

[goolawah]

Originally Posted by Darryl Riley

By the way it is No 3 and it's in the UK

Welcome to te group Darryl. Wow! Number 3. I wonder if we'll find number 1 in there somewhere.

Have you been in touch with Barrie Skelcher, who is keeping a list of known Mirror 16 owners?

[Barrie Skelcher]

Hello Darryl,

I,m Barrie Skelcher, No 64 "Puff" and sail at Slaughden on the Suffolk (UK) Coast. I would like to hear from you direct and add your details to our list of M16 owners. (ie boat name, your email & poatal address and if you wish, phone number) I will then add to the list which is circulated to all our members.Whereabout are you? Do you race, if so off what handicap? I had Puff back in 1968, sold her some years latter then discovered her last year rotting away. Bought her and had her restored. If you want any help or advice please feel free to contact me.

Regards

Barrie

[Darryl Riley]

Hello Barrie
I currently race an Albacore at Shottick lake in North Wales (UK), You can E mail me on darryl.riley1971@tiscali.co.uk. The boat was built by Bell and is as origional, with no modifications yet. The Centre board keeps poping up while sailing so thats about to get a bit of bungy on it to hold it down.
It is going to be used for dinghy cruising around the north Wales coast as it has the cuddy and frame for overnight camping. While it isn't the prettyest of boats it is very functional and light for the size.

Cheers
Darryl

[goolawah]

Hi Darryl

Originally Posted by Darryl Riley

While it isn't the prettyest of boats it is very functional and light for the size.

Indeed! Are we going to be introduced? Does she have a name? We would love to see some pictures (especially ACTION!) if you have any.

Our little group is planning a sail on Sunday. We will launch and Manly (a bayside suburb of Brisbane), and sail variously to or around Green Island, St Helena Island, King island depending on conditions.

Such outings recently have included a day trip to Coochiemudlo Island, and camping weekends at Elanda Point on Lake Cootharaba and "The Bedroom" on South Stradbroke Island.

You might be interested the latest issue of our Wooden Boat Association newsletter featuring a Mirror 16 on the front cover. http://www.profitworks.com.au/Thelog06/

[Dave Hawley]

Hi, my name's Dave and I've never been on the web before.

Whats the first thing I see but Mirrors!!!!

Chatting to my father this evening he reminded me that he had a little part to play in its history. He was mates with Barry Bucknall when he had the comission from the Mirror newspaper to bring sailing to the masses.The design was just right for the times. My dad dealt with original Mirror supplier Jeckles the sailmakers, being in the canvas game, and over a boozy lunch the idea for a Mirror trailer tent was born. Barry designed the 'hull' of plywood and dad did the canvas with the plywood cutting done by Bell Woodworks in Liecester UK.I'm not sure they did the ply kits for all boats in the UK but a hell of a lot.

Oh well so this is the web, I feel my Walker log has been bettered.



A reply would be nice

[goolawah]

G'day Dave, from the Australian end of the Mirror 16 enthusiasts forum. The web has proven a wonderful place for Mirror 16 enthusiats all over the world, who thought they were alone, to discover others of similar bent.

We naturally wonder if there are any Mirror 16s in Guernsey?

[Dave Hawley]

Hey Mon

Thanks for the reply, funny you should ask about any Mirrors in Guernsey, as I drove to work this morning the boatyard across from ours,John Cluett Sailing Services, has this boat on a trailer that looks just like a 16 but, but in strip! Have you ever seen one? John's yard is one of those that just seems to fill with old wooden boats(heaven) but they do'nt die just yet. P.S. John is working on 100' Tug boat called the Cairns, not one of yours is it?