method question

Glued laps are, structurally, the same as stringers. A bulkhead may be needed at the mast location, but a light ring frame should work as well.

 

As you can guess, I'm not a fan of sawn frames. They're usually heavier then they need to be, muck up the inside of the boat, in spite of the weeps cut into them, the grain is usually not in an ideal position, compared to bent or laminated, so . . .

 

I think I would suggest seeing if you can get a ride in a few of these double enders. Surely there must be a few still being used occassionally and I'm sure if you express an interest you could get on board. They are getting a bit rare now in the UK.

Then if you managed to try several you might see how they handle and work. Also get a bit of a feel for how subtle and not so subtle shapes behave differently especially in waves. Although I have only sailed in a handful of double enders, they can be a bit different. Still raced/sailed a few fully ribbed dinghies up to 32' though!, built around 2nd world war and just after but still going.

Still worth fairing that lower diagonal (and below), partly because it might give you a planking problem. Would also be worth checking how that type of craft evolved. Some will be (have been) better than others ie better sailers, better sea kindly shapes. Partly because they were commercial craft - more time fishing, less travelling, quicker to market. Bet the best ones were more to PAR's suggestion as to shape tweaking ideas. There is an awful lot of hollow in those stern sections, which would definitely be better moderated.

Good luck with her.

 

Agreed, in that you should get some rides on boats. Any sailboat will do, through preferably ones about the length of your project, give or take a few feet. Having no experience is an advantage, as you come to it knowing nothing, so biases don't exist. You'll find three basic types commonly available, the wholesome cruiser type, which offers a cabin and some modest accommodation and relatively predictable, less then sparkling performance, but reliable behavior. Next up will be the typical dinghy, which depending on type, will offer surprising performance compared to the cruiser, though it'll also demand some skills from the skipper. Lastly, will be the work boat or character pocket yacht. These are sort of like the cruiser, but more specifically designed to carry a load. The pocket yacht will be gaff or lug or other, seemingly traditional rig and it'll too have a small cabin or cuddy. These types of boat will perform the worst of all, but you can pack in all your friends and Fidel the wonder dog too. It'll be steady, slow and basic, though usually comfortable and secure feeling too.

By getting as many rides as you can, you'll quickly notice the differences and more importantly, develop preferences for various attributes. In your area (where I grew up BTW) there are lots of every kind of boat, in this general size. Beg, borrow or steal (my favorite tactic) rides as often as you can. Development of your skills and desires will greatly help your understanding and appreciation, of both the old and new. Don't worry about the double ended thing, just get out there with mother nature's breath motivating your conveyance. This way, once you have your double ender, you'll understand what's going on, what you might want to change (there's always stuff to change) and what you can expect from her.

 

There is a lot of debate about double enders vs transom sterns. The fact is that mostly they are only different at the deck level. Many boats, like Whitehalls, are identical to a double ender below the waterline.

 

This is true to a degree, though a real double ender will carry it's displacement volume differently (usually slightly further aft) than a transom stern model, simply because it hasn't the reserve bearing area, the transom stern has. This is one reason it's so hard to shape the run on a double ender with short over hangs. It's easy on an old "Universal Rule" boat with their long over hangs, so you can have sweet, low angle buttocks and no hooks in the diagonals, but on a short over hang model, you have to "pick them up" much earlier and the boat gets cranky to windward, if it can get there at all in a big blow.

I remember being in a Block Island CowHorn (similar heritage to the NoMans), in a big blow on a leeshore, completely unable to make progress to windward. The very small diesel aboard was also unable to do much, so even motorsailing, we where just able to hold our own, not gaining, but not losing. This is a common complaint and a difficulty I hope the original poster doesn't have to experience. The leeshore was soft, but the surf would have pound us to death.

Lastly, about these antique designs that have fine reputations for being sea boats. These where written by the survivors, while the others (often as much as 50%) had much less bragging to do about the type they were on.

 

Well, I didn't say I had never been aboard any sailboats, just that I hadn't sailed them myself, and two of them were very similar to my hull (perhaps they helped form my desire for one myself?) Both of them were Walter Simmons designs, one his matinicus double ender and the other his Lincolnville salmon wherry which, while not a double ender in that it had a very small, high tucked transom and as Gonzo said, double ended at the waterline. Another DE I was on was a Herreschoff (sp) day sailor that was for sale at the museums annual boat auction last summer. Now while the Herreschoff was not even the same as mine, the matinicus was a very similar boat and the LSW is fairly similar and I like them both very much.
OK, hell, is this going to be the best hull floating? Probably not but it is one that I am going to enjoy. Im going to enjoy being out in it, learning in it, looking at it and tinkering with it and these things matter a lot to me. Will it be my last boat? No. Is it going to be the ideal boat? Show me that boat and I will build that one instead. Will I learn that there are things I don't like about it? Maybe, maybe not, but probably so. Who has not? If someone has had only one boat their entire lives then I guess that that boat was the perfect boat for them but as far as I know everybody has had one boat and then another. Why? Needs change, locations change, attitudes change and learning increases knowledge and awareness and that's the road I am on, the road of learning, my road and I am not discounting anyones hard won knowledge they have garnered through their experiences, I appreciate the fact that you are taking the time to share it with me but people choose boats for sometimes impractical reasons. I guess what Im getting at is that no person is going to make me change my mind obviously but if I find that my experiences mimic yours graciously presented here I will be the first to report back to you that you were right and that I should have heeded your advice but for now I am going to build her and enjoy myself immensely I think.
So, about those frames....................................................................

I would like to add, and as stated, I know you Paul, are a very respectable designer, knowlegable in your field, but I also know and trust Kees Prins, with whom Ive had a great time learning from his own hard won knowledge and experiences. He is a world class sailor who has sailed his little 16' fulmar design far and wide. He has owned his own boat building school, which he started, in Holland. He works with some of the top names in boat design and building, is a great teacher and just loves boats. He has built a great number of boats just like my little hull including 2 NML boats for raid participants and he, and the owners, seem to be very happy with the performance of those hulls, Kees enough so to direct my attention to them. Not saying that anybody is wrong here and not saying that anybody is right, just saying that everyone has preferences and attributes they like and ones they dont . Guess Im just trying to say, in a diplomatic manner, I am going to build this boat. I think that's whats important here.

NOW, About those frames.........................................................................................................................................

 

Regrettably I witnessed first hand the total destruction of a 27' double ender way back in the 70's. Unlike you PAR she was driven onto a lee shore in a Force 7. Unfortunately the lee shore was a 200' sheer rock cliff on an large (5 mile by 3) island in the north of Scotland. Luckily the boat was swept head on into a very narrow ravine about 10' wide and the crew of 6 were able to climb up and out. Within the hour there was only a pitiful frame left.
I believe it was poor skippering, panicking and only partly the windward ability that caused this accident. At least no one was hurt and all were recovered after a walk over the cliffs to a sheltered bay where they were picked up.

I was at the time sailing in an identical boat quite close to the incident. Too dangerous for us to try and get in and recover the crew from the ravine. However we gave ourselves plenty of sea room to manouver and shot off to raise the alarm. Those boats had jibs too which generally help with windward ability.

It turned out there was only the one ravine on that cliff face, so they were incredibly lucky to be swept there. I can honestly say if she had been swept side on, onto those rocks and cliff, serious injury if not worse would have been the result.

Quite an educational experience. To misqoute Jimmy Webb - The Sea is a harsh mistress.