Information/Help Wolverine Wagemaker

[RandyS]

I am very new to wood boat designs. I hope there may be some advise that can point me in a good direction. I was looking at a Wolverine Wagemaker to purchase. I was infromed it was restored 5 years ago and never in the water since. It is plywood construction (molded?). I noticed the keel has at least one soft spot where the paint and some wood can be chipped away (about 1" X 3"). Is this a somewhat sacrificial piece on the exterior of the hull? Wood it be something to scarf out and fill with epoxy and paint over? The boat has a lapstrake bottom which seems sound but does this provide a moisture space more so with the plywood hull? The interior stringers running fore and aft seem sound. Is the interior main called a keel also? I noticed a support (cleat?) for the starbord stringer at the transom would wiggle a little. I also noticed the paint at the exterior of the transon in this spot is spongy. I can dent it with my thumbnail about a 1/16". This is in a spot about 2.5" X 2". I would be expecting some dammage there as well. The paint is cracked around the transom at the joint. It looks to be coated with a white enamal. The upper on the boat is varnished. The person selling it is looking for a significant (in my eyes) amount of money. I am wondering if this is going to be a significat work project and how much time and money might this be? The boat is 14 foot long with 3 bench seats. I have no boat building experiance but some wood working experiance. Does this sound like a large time and money consuming project. Should I discount the offered price by some amount for this possible work requirement? I won't post the price unless asked. Should a beginner be looking at this type of work? Thanks much.
Randy

[Figgy]

Originally Posted by RandyS

Should a beginner be looking at this type of work?

I think it depends. Is this a boat that your willing to spend lots of time and money on? With practice, you can aquire the skills necessary to work on her, but will it be worth it to YOU? .

[hansp77]

Originally Posted by RandyS

Does this sound like a large time and money consuming project. Should I discount the offered price by some amount for this possible work requirement?

Yes to the first.
Not only is it a boat(= time and money) it is an old wooden boat (=2xtime and 2xmoney ) You have noticed at least a small amount of work, that means there is more.
Yes to the second.
As you know, most people ask a price higher than they are willing to accept.

Should you do it?
Like Figgy said-
up to you.

Do you want to spend a lot of time and money? Do you want to learn these skills?

I have recently gone through the same thing. First boat, a lovely old wooden one, LOTS of work, and LOTS of money.
I don't regret it- but if I knew what I was in for at the beginning- I probably could not have rationalised the choice (for reasons of time and money).

[VKRUE]

Hey Randy,

As Hansp77 has mentioned, you have uncovered some of the "problem spots". There will no doubt be more. It sounds like someone has done a cheap "restoration" job just to make it appealling enough to sell.

When do you want to get on the water ? This summer yet... next summer ?
How much time do you have to dedicate to this project ?
Are you married and if so do you intend to stay married ?

A fella that I work with once told me that "a boat is nothing more than a hole in the water that a boat owner pours his / her $$$ into".

I haven't finished mine yet... Money, time, money, time........you get the picture. Whats under those soft spots will probably turn out to be more than expected. Maybe not but, what else is under all of that nice new paint just waiting to be exposed

You mention a soft spot on the keel. Are you refering to a keel guard ? The keel is on the inside of the hull but, there is probably a long strip of wood running from the bow to the transom under the center of the boat... this would be called the keel guard and yes, it is somewhat sacrificial. (Someone please correct me if I'm off base). If we're on the right track still, this is no big deal yet as long as the soft or rotton spot does not go past the keel guard into the hull. If it does then your looking at possible rotted wood in the hull and maybe also the keel itself. (This is exactly what I ran into with my boat but, I strongly suspected this at the time of purchase and knew that I'd be getting into a lot of work).

So, we are back to my original questions.
When do you want to get on the water ? This summer yet... next summer ?
How much time do you have to dedicate to this project ?
Are you married and if so do you intend to stay married ?

Best of luck... check out my gallery (click on my user name and choose "view VKRUE's gallery" then click on the picture to open the entire album and click on any picture from there to enlarge that picture ) and you'll get some idea of what I've had to do.

[RandyS]

Thanks,
If the keel is on the inside then I would call it the keel guard. I was able to get about an 1/8 of soft wood off of it then it was solid. If the interior of the boat is molded plywood to the bottom and the exterior is of the lapstrake design then I would have a real good spot for trouble in between those two? I was told the lapstrake was cedar. I thought the interior main beam was called a keelson, that is why I called the exterior the keel. I am learning, thanks. I was going into it knowing there was always maintenance on a wood boat, but a rebuild was a little further out than I wanted to go. Yes I am married with children, so my dedicated time comes at a premium now. It seems like such a beautiful work of art. It would have to be something I would use not just look at. I do have a few jpg's but I wouldn't know how to post them or where to store them. If anyone is interested I could e-mail them.
Randy

[hansp77]

To post pictures-
if you got them from a webpage, you need to option click or right click (I'm on a mac) on the image on its web page, and then copy the web address.

When you are posting a reply here, you then go up to the little box with the mountain and yellow sky (insert image) and then paste in the adress.

If you only have the images yourself, then you have to first upload them to somewhere.
I use
http://www.imageshack.us/
You can sign up with them, or not, its good to- but it is the same process.
You upload and image to them, then they generate a web address for you which you copy and paste here.

Photos do help. Especially of your problem areas.
Hans.

[VKRUE]

No need to subscribe to any service to upload your pic's and so forth... if you have your pic's on a CD, or have a scanner, you can upload them to a file on YOUR computer (mine is named "my pictures") and then as Hansp77 writes, you would use the "MANAGE ATTACHMENTS" button in the "ADDITIONAL OPTIONS" box just below the "REPLY TO THREAD" box on your screen. It might take a little bit of reading in the HELP files to master this function but it really is easy. By using the "MANAGE ATTACHMENTS" function, the forum software used here will locate and copy your .jpg files, and thus you (and we) will see your pictures. Pictures are great... they can tell everyone here much more than words can describe.

A 1/8" of soft wood isn't bad, and I suspect that the keel guard is around 1" - 1 3/4" deep or thick (Top Down - not wide).

I didn't necessarily need to overhaul my entire boat but, I figured that with that big of a hole in the hull.... why not ! She's getting a complete overhaul, inside and out. This is also my first boat.

Congrat's on your marrage and family... I wasn't trying to be a wise-ass, only to point out that a project like this is going to require some sacrafice. If you family is positive about it then great... maybe even they can be involved ?? Your time is yours and only you can determine if you might have the patience for something like this. Personally, I've been working on my boat for two years now... still a long way to go and I can't wait to get her out on the water.

Would love to see your "Potential Project"

[hansp77]

Silly Me!
The way you describe posting pictures Vkrue- is the way I used to do it.
I thought for some reason things had changed.
I think because on other forums I have used you can only post pictures the way I described, somehow I came back here, and couldn't find the normal manage attatchments button, and then pressed on the insert image one.

The thing is, the way I described it is really good for posting pictures that are already on the net. It saves you from downloading it onto your own computer then uploading it here. You just copy the address of it, and paste the adress of it. Simple.

If the image is only on your own computer though, the way you described is much better.
Glad I can do that again now...

P.S.
Sorry for the threadjack Randy-
Hope to see a image of this boat now

[VKRUE]

Hans: 10-4 , I also thought (after my reply) that your method might be specific to a MAC system which I've never used.

Randy: As far as the plywood inner hull combined with a lapstrake outer hull, I'm not familiar with this type of construction accept that YES, it would possibly provide for a space to gather and retain water... This is at the very least something to pay special attention to. But someone else here can comment more accurately about this. I'm not a professional so don't base your judgements on my words alone but, to answer your biggest question: NO, I don't think it would be too time / $$$ consuming. What, may I ask, is the asking price ? I paid $400 for my 17' cuddy (1960) and another $400 for the 115 hp Evinrude (1974)

Gotta go to work now...
Have a great day guys

[RandyS]

The seller was asking 2K. He was somewhat quiet when I started asking about the soft spots. He didn't believe anything was that amiss. The one divit is about at the first roller from the front of the trailer. Do I have to delete these after a bit to conserve server space?

[hansp77]

Originally Posted by RandyS

He was somewhat quiet when I started asking about the soft spots.

of course he was.
WHAT SOFT SPOTS??
sometimes people try to convince themselves of these things.
It looks like a beautifull boat.
But soft is soft, and if you are going to remove it, you need to take a fair bit of the hard stuff around it too.

Originally Posted by RandyS

Do I have to delete these after a bit to conserve server space?

No.
But this is one of the advantages, I think, of posting images the way I recomended at first. Instead of the server having to store an uploaded image, it only has to store a web address and retrieve it everytime somone loads the page. I think this is the reason that other forums only allow images to be posted this way. I don't think this is a mac specific thing.

Hans.

[Figgy]

Originally Posted by hansp77

I think this is the reason that other forums only allow images to be posted this way.

Its called hotlinking, it eats up bandwidth.
Sorry, back to the boat
For two grand, huh? It sure is preaty! If it was me, I'd do it. Try to knock the price some because of the soft spots (obviously), but otherwise it seems to be a good deal.

[VKRUE]

Hey Randy:
She looks real nice...

Like figgy says... try to negotiate for those soft spots. She should come with a trailer too I hope. Two grand is a lot of $$$ But she sure is pretty.

Best wishes

[RandyS]

The trailer wasn't included. I was told a bunk type trailer is what is required for a wood hull boat. Is that standard? I can see it from the support standpoint, but I would also think the long line provides a better moisture holding area. If I was looking at spot fixing the areas I noticed should I be considering completely stripping the the bottom or can it be sectionalized (is that a word?). I thought the coating should be continious to be right. Eventually I figure I will have to open it up, but I was hoping not right away. I think I have to talk to the owner a little more. I appreciate everyones help. It is a sharp looking boat, isn't it.
Randy

[hansp77]

Hey Randy,
very sharp looking boat (IMHO).

It should be fine to 'sectionalize' your repairs- although you will have to strip it back a bit past the wood you remove.
after scarfing in your new wood you will just have to do a bit of fairing and sanding- then once fair, paint the whole underside again. This will give you a 'continuous' top coat- and if you have faired it properly, the repair should be invisible. At least that is the plan.

Its probably a good idea to get a little use out of it before you start cutting out wood (so long as the hull is still sound)- probably what I should have done with mine- but be carefull not to let it go too far.
Remember that the rot is alive, and is slowly spreading.
You should definately talk to the owner more.
Pick his brains. Find out everything he knows, everything he found out from the owner before him (assuming there was one), any repairs that have been done, what materials have been used for construction and repairs, etc, etc.
Hans.