fiberglassing wood lapstrake/keel

[wooden Grady]

I have a 1963 Grady White runabout. It has a wooden lapstrake hull, on which the bottom four laps are already coated (I don't know how many years ago) with fiberglass. It's where the hull meets the keel that's the problem.

There is no fiberglass in the keel, although there used to be. I remember when I was young helping my dad cut it off. The fiberglass also used to cover the transom, which I would like also tackle. Finally, the lapstrake is painted white, the gunnels, deck, and transom are poly.

My questions:

Do I need to take the hull and keel down to bare wood in order to fiberglass? I'm guessing yes, I am a painter and I know that gets best adhesion with paints, but resin is different maybe??

What type resin and fiberglass is best for this type of project? This boat is used almost exclusively in fresh water, if that matters.

Thanks very much everyone. feel free to email if it's convenient.

Paul

[marshmat]

The purists here might say your boat was never meant to be glassed and should be left as plain wood. If the glass appears to not be part of the original build, this could be the case, and you might consider restoring it to factory wood-bottom condition.
Having said that: If you do want to redo the glass, you will probably have the best luck taking all of it off, then using a modern marine epoxy resin to lay up new glass. Fibreglass does bond to old fibreglass but it's tricky to get it to work, and not as strong. Modern epoxies are an order of magnitude better in all respects than the resins available in 1963.

[wooden Grady]

Originally Posted by marshmat

The purists here might say your boat was never meant to be glassed and should be left as plain wood. If the glass appears to not be part of the original build, this could be the case, and you might consider restoring it to factory wood-bottom condition.
Having said that: If you do want to redo the glass, you will probably have the best luck taking all of it off, then using a modern marine epoxy resin to lay up new glass. Fibreglass does bond to old fibreglass but it's tricky to get it to work, and not as strong. Modern epoxies are an order of magnitude better in all respects than the resins available in 1963.

Matt,

I agree that it would be best if it were plain wood, and I'm sure that the glass was not original, but the quality of the wood abutting the keel is not great. I have a feeling that my grandfather applied it for that reason.

So the epoxy gramps used to apply the glass was not from 63, but more like late 70's. Given that clarification, do you still think that full removal of the old glass is necessary. I probably don't need to ask that question--it's usually "best" to start over.

[Hunter25]

Your Grady didn't come with a glassed bottom. Reglassing the bottom isn't a cure and is probably one of the problems. The garboard planks on these boats are the first to wear out. They move a lot in use and the rabbet hammers the the softer planking stock once the fasteners have pulled a touch. I'm not sure when Grady started sealing their seams with polysufide, but 1963 is about the time when most manufactures of lap hulls started doing so. When the garboard lap at the rabbit wears out it starts leaking and just gets worse untill she is refastened if possable or has the garboards replaced. Garboard replace is a very common repair on these boats. Placing a hard plastic over a semi rotten, surely very weakened garboard seam or any other lap strake seam is never a good idea. Lap strake planking moves much more then most other ways of planking, this movement will rip open the bond on the best of materals, let alone water damaged wood. In the 70's epoxy use wasn't what it is today and I don't think it is, unless your grandfather was very progressive, which this repair doesn't hint at. Chip out a piece of the plastic sand the paint off, wipe some mineral spirits on it and look at its color. If its a greenish blue then is polyester if its yellowish then its epoxy.

The ugly part of it all is the 'glass should come off and the garboard seam looked at. There will be loose fasteners and rot along the edge of the plank. Lets hope the rabbit can be repaired and the other seams haven't suffered a like wise fate, but doen't be surprised if all the bottom planks need to be replaced. A 1963 lapped hull should be on it third set of bottom planks at this age unless it had fantastic care. If the 'glass work was done in the 70's it was probably done on the origional bottom and 43 years is good service out of the planking and they should be replaced.

This isn't a job for the shade tree kind of guy. Lap strake boats are the most difficult to repair and you will probably have other problems like cracked and broken frames, rot in the keel, stem, transom, stringers. Have a professional come take a look.

[wooden Grady]

Hey Hunter,

Originally Posted by Hunter25

Chip out a piece of the plastic sand the paint off, wipe some mineral spirits on it and look at its color. If its a greenish blue then is polyester if its yellowish then its epoxy.

I remember seeing greenish blue last time I repainted, so that tells me what's there.

Originally Posted by Hunter25

When the garboard lap at the rabbit wears out it starts leaking and just gets worse untill she is refastened if possable or has the garboards replaced. Garboard replace is a very common repair on these boats. Placing a hard plastic over a semi rotten, surely very weakened garboard seam or any other lap strake seam is never a good idea. Lap strake planking moves much more then most other ways of planking, this movement will rip open the bond on the best of materals, let alone water damaged wood.

Well, here's the thing. I'm guessing that the rabbet is the groove in the keel where the garboard meets it, so correct me if I'm wrong. The garboard itself, and the majority of the keel are in great shape. There's this one spot where two pieces of the keel come together, and this is where the leak is. There is no evidence of water damage anywhere else.

Originally Posted by Hunter25

The ugly part of it all is the 'glass should come off and the garboard seam looked at. There will be loose fasteners and rot along the edge of the plank. Lets hope the rabbit can be repaired and the other seams haven't suffered a like wise fate, but doen't be surprised if all the bottom planks need to be replaced. A 1963 lapped hull should be on it third set of bottom planks at this age unless it had fantastic care. If the 'glass work was done in the 70's it was probably done on the origional bottom and 43 years is good service out of the planking and they should be replaced.

This boat was cared for meticulously for a long time, and it's use has always been minimal. Over the length of it her life, she has only spent one summer in the water, besides that she's a day trip boat, trailered otherwise, stored in a garage every winter.

Originally Posted by Hunter25

This isn't a job for the shade tree kind of guy. Lap strake boats are the most difficult to repair and you will probably have other problems like cracked and broken frames, rot in the keel, stem, transom, stringers. Have a professional come take a look.

Yeah, you're not kidding! I believe there might be some rot in the transom, but that's so hard to see. Where the lapstrake meets the transom is a whole other problem. I actually have pictures of that, and I'll post them as soon as I can, so stay tuned!

I'll plan to take off all the 'glass and take a look. Fortunately, there's a guy who restores wooden boats nearby where she's kept.

Given these updates, has what you said changed at all?

I appreciate all you have said. It's so nice that there's a place for "veteran rookies" (or shade tree guy, as you so accurately put it

[Hunter25]

The rabbit is where the garboard plank (inner most plank) recieves the planking. It's a L shaped groove sometimes carved, sometimes built up with pieces on each side of the keel.

The majority of the keel and the planking will be in much better shape then where the parts interact (join) like the rabbit and the plank laps. It does no good if the laps are shot, but the rest of the plank is ok. The full plank must be able to recieve the stresses and in case of the garboard plank transfer them to the keel. If the seam is mush, the fasteners wasted and loose it doesn't matter what kind of shape the rest of the garboard plank is in. The attachements are key in this type of planking. The same is true of the frame to plank fastening.

The point where the two keel pieces are joined will have a stopwater which is a wooden dowel driven at the junction of these parts. It too will need redoing and is usually done when a new garboard is installed. There will be a few of them around the keel and stem inside the rabbit.

Trailer boats live a hard life. The road beats them, the poorly fit trailer distorts them, rough loading and unloading opens seams and strains joints and the wood swells and drys over and over, forcing more strain on the fasteners.

The hood ends of the planking are common problem areas. The transom and fore foot are also problem areas in regard to standing water between frame bays that have had dirt, leaves and junk pulg up the weep holes so water can't run down to the bilge pump pickup.

Have your boat restorer come over and give a good looking over. I have one of those in my area and he's saved me a bunch of headaches by catching things before they were problems and showing me what will be or could be problems. He may charge a amount, but it's worth it because it saves you lots of time and money if you let one of the problems go to long which can cause other problems.