cheap build without cheap look (I think)

I looked at this build about 5 mos ago while I was being 'inspired' to do a build. It is an awesome job.

"Yawing' as you put it is non existent on my boat, no matter how you paddle. It doesn't have a skeg sticking down, so to speak, but the first two feet is so narrow, I thought it would act as a skeg, but look like boat. I thought having something at the bow to keep it going straight would let me turn it like you normally turn a canoe, but let me tell you, bringing that big a** around, especially in the windy Gulf chop, is more than a chore, even with no skeg at the stern. I'm good if I have a heading or only need to change it, some, but to do a 180....uhh. I tried two different Necky (16 footers) models and both turned much easier. What I hated about both was they seemed to reach hull speed too soon. When I made the compromises, I ended up with what you see. I can't turn well, but it goes through the Gulf chop like a banshee, and one or two paddles to one side keeps it going straight. It's mostly a workout boat, so I can live with the hard to turn bit. I tow it two miles with my bike and paddle for about two hrs. When I go to the gulf (car carrier for that), I'll go three to four hrs with and against the wind. It's fun as hell in the chop and it's a heck of a workout.

 

Thank you. I saw a lot of his stuff during my planning and research of what my yak HAD to have to at least work decently.

 

welcome to the forum,

Enjoy your kayak, gets some use out of it and than learn some more about hull design. i have designed and built over a dozen skin on frame kayaks. All except the aluminum framed folder, cost less than $100 in materials. 1/4" plywood is pretty heavy for a kayak, and costly too. If you have a table saw, or can rig a circular saw on a fixed mount, you can rip all of the stringers you need from a single 16' 2x8 (about $12 at a big box store, select a fairly clear one from the stack), the 9 oz. nylon skin would cost about $30-40 from George Dyson Biedarka & company in Bellingham WA Oil based paint would seal the skin, usual you can get paint for free or very low cost from a recycling center. Latex also works but is not quite as durable.

Skin on frame allows you to make nice faired hull shapes without a lot of effort, also is fast to build, water tight and very light. my wife's 15'5" skin on frame kayak weighs about 19 lbs, I made one for my daughter (west Greenland type) weighes 16 lbs. They are durable and perform very well, fun and easy to make (typically about 20 to 30 hours). There are many instructions available on line, just search for them.

Plywood kayaks are costly, heavy and do not handle or behave the same as a skin on frame kayak, even of exactly the same dimensions. I think the little bit of flex in the hull makes it more responsive. like a suspension on a car, it makes it more controllable and comfortable in rough conditions. I think plywood is better suited to dingys and samll sailboat.

I have also used this type of construction to build small sailing dingys and trimarans too. I built one 14' sailing sloop for about $35 worth of salvaged lumber and parts from salvage sources.

 

Sounds like a good time. The heaviness of the hull in choppy conditions may even be helping to stabilize things. On such a long waterline, the only place that you may notice the heft is between the car and the beach.

 

Hehehe....I built a cart out of the scraps I had left over. Cost me $3.50 for the Polyseamseal and I already had two 12" mag wheels off of a kick and go scooter. Just painted it, today. When I tow it behind my bicycle, I can feel it, but it isn't terrible, besides, I can't do squats any longer, so this will keep the legs strong.

eta - I have a rack on my car that you can set one end at a time on, so basically, I'm just lifting about 50 lbs at a time. it's not bad, at all.

Thank you for your replies along with everyone else. I was a little apprehensive posting it, here, with all the knowledge floating (no pun, here) around. I appreciate everyone's input and plan on putting some of it to work.

 

Your boat looks great. I'm curious as to how it performs in rough water? The Gulf water off Englewood beach and Boca Grande (where I go 50% of the time) is rough as heck. Heavy chop, usually, but none of the tall swells more associated with deep water. The Neckies that I tried seemed to climb too much over the tops the of waves and the bow would 'slap' the water hard when it came back down. I don't mind that, so much, as long as the boat will take the abuse. Would a boat like yours in the pic do the same (bow lift and slap the water once over the wave)?

 

Intresting thread, well done on your own boat.

Ages ago, when I did a fair bit of canoeing, I liked the Ottersport plywood Eskimo kit boat. It was pretty light and behaved very very well on big open water, such as open sea and big lakes. It is too narrow for the novice, but if you can roll and recover OK, you would like it. Not as tippy as a K1 but still not a beginner boat. Very easily driven with minimal effort. The shape was better than several SOF boats I tried of similar design ie Eskimo type.

Try the link below and you should see the shape I am referring to as the Drawings wher the title is Building in Wood - Plywood.

http://www.kayarchy.co.uk/html/01equipment/007plywood.htm

 

Haha...thank you. I already have that link saved. Has some really cool stuff in it. It's where I got some good nav tips, as well. Reading the bits about the double sheets of ply in vulnerable areas is where I got the idea to double ply my cockpit (only the floor). When we first float tested it, the floor felt mushy. Adding another layer of ply took care of that, easily. My ultimate goal along with spending the least amount as possible was to not use any glass or resin, but still be able to handle rough water. The one layer floor wouldn't have lasted long as I'm constantly riding over air between waves.

BTW, we reweighed the boat using weights, a balance beam, and a pulley with rope and it took 91 lbs to keep perfect balance with the seat and 2 rod holders, but no rigging, so that makes me feel a little better. Never try to weigh a kayak on a WM bathroom scale...it just doesn't work.

 

The only way to weight on a bathroom scale is to step on the scale with the boat in one hand.
But I'm not sure I still could with your boat.

 

Actually floor battens work better, as stiffeners with minimum weight, compared to doubling the ply thickness. Another trick is to use very thin ply say 2mm gaboon with a WR Cedar core then another skin of ply. 3mm ply is plenty with sensible battening, I'd even go down to 2mm if resin or resin/glass sheathed in certain places but with stiffening battens. The foredeck at 2mm for example. Probably batten under the rear deck for putting gear. Even riding air those 3mm Ottersports hulls seemed to take it fine.

 

I didn't think about that. I have a rigging that I use to move it around my garage...I could have just stepped right on. 300lb capacity, too. Good call.

 

Yep...came to the right place. I had to look batten up, and if I used the right wood, I could have saved another 4 lbs, easily. Good call, as well.

 

native design kayaks, like the skin-on-frame pictured, are designed to sit low in the water. they will not have a lot of freeboard, it puts you close to the water surface for more efficient paddling. it more or less cuts though chop and waves, it gives excellent control and behavior in rough conditions, but it will be a wet ride. The design of skin-on-frame hulls can take everythign, and much more, than any other construction method. they are tough and durable when built properly. by having a bit of flex, and multiple redundant load paths in the frame, they are better able to absorb impacts. they will stay floating, even with a damaged frame, long before any plywood hull would have long given up and sank.

 

I like SOF too, but to say plywood hulls will give out and sink quicker is just plain wrong.

 

of course you can make a kayak out of 3/4" plywood and never have it fail. but similar lightweight design, the plywood is very light and easy to damage. In my experience of building some 25 or more small boats (some in plywood, others skin on frame), the skin on frame are far less fragile for similar weight.

The skin on frame is vulnerable to skin punctures from sharp edged objects, not something you normally find, even on a rocky beach. but the skin-on-frame will take way more abuse than any lightweight plywood hull.

try doing this with a lightweight plywood hull:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYyvIExWkqU

how about this one? take a claw hammer to your plywood boat?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JTcMMkgk2Y