boat bottom

[cyclops]

My secret is to finish what I started in the time frame I gave myself .Then start a new project. Success feels good.

[splitshot]

Very good point---thats good to hear. I should live forever because of all the projects I have started.
I got a new boat building book by Don Danenberg on restoring
Wooden Runabouts--that really helps with the big picture. Especially with the different compounds to use and when to use them. It's a little overwhelming if you look at the whole picture. I loved the surveyors estimating sheet --all the $$$$$$$$ ---But owe the joy of that first bit of finish work...RIGHT!!

[splitshot]

Maybe I'll be able to set completion goals after I retire Cyclops--right now I could keep a three man crew busy for a year with all the projects I have started...I really love the boat, I,m afraid it may be a little over my head with exstensive repairs. I think the things that are making me cautious is items like keeping the boat in alignment while I make repairs. The Less obvious items that make or break a good repair job.....I'm fairly good at wood working, Being able to turn boats over and that sort of things will keep me out of the ball game. I wouldn't hesitate on starting this project if I had an experienced boat builder for a friend.

[cyclops]

I love it when we can step back from the project and view it as if the boat belonged to a sincere, close friend. Then we honestly tell him to please let go and move on to better things. You are your closest friend. Well done, on your sizeing up what is facing you. I NEVER lie to myself. I sleep much better.

[Bergalia]

Splitshot - you've got a lot of experienced boat building friends here on this forum - 62,319 at last count.
If 'we' are to tackle this project first thing is to get the vacuum cleaner in there and clean out all that detritous. (Check the bag for any important small bits that might have escaped your notice.) Clear as much space as you can around the craft to give you a 'trip-free' 'stand-back and look' area. Clear the decks, as it were.
Lift out the engine. (Try 'lending' it to a local Sea Scout Troop, Technical College, or Petrol Head club as a 'challenging work project' - free rides if they can restore it to its former glory...)
Use decent 'scrap' timber to build a rigid holding cradle.
Now, crawl about inside with a screwdriver and poke the woodwork. Mark anything suspicously soft.
Take one internal section at a time, no matter how small, and rebuild it. Take your time, and even if it won't be visible from a quick external inspection - take pride in the job. Don't botch it because it doesn't seem important. That's bound to be the one piece which will let you down at sea.
Break off to celebrate your hundredth birthday... Read Josh Slocum's 'Sailing Alone Around The World'. Then restart work. Spending too much time on a rebuilding job can lead to 'enthusiasm fatigue.' Like writing a book. You can get stale. A break - and then a review of the work already done - it fires up the energy again.
Internal frame work back in A1 condition - start on the exterior. Your frame, like a skeleton, is what you hang the flesh on.
Dismantle the cradle - grab your local Sea Scouts, Tech College or etc, and carefully turn her over. Bottom side up. Replace the cradle...There that wasn't too hard was it.
Now, if necessary replace the hull planking from the keel outwards to the deck line.
Give it a good application of marine paint. (Mind you when I was a boy it would have been 'pitch'...but you younger generation have got strange fancy ideas...)
Time for the sea Scouts etc. Cradle off and turn her right sides up.
Cradle back on and start on the decking. This done you can potter about doing the internal 'tiddly bits'. Wall paper, curtains, a few 'old masters' hung in the stateroom. (Good copies - not originals - sea water plays hell with the varnish). By which time your engine - if you've played your cards right should be ready for installation.
Use the 'old war veteran' ploy when approaching a friendly electrician...A limp, or pinned up empty sleeve helps, and plead poverty - and a longing for 'one last trip out to sea before....' Leave this last sentence unfinished. Leave it to his imagination...And if he's any Christian charity the wiring will be done overnight.
The main thing is, Splitshot, if you do start the project - be determined to see it through. And when completed you'll be in the running for "Yacht Club Bore Of The Year Award'.
If you're half-hearted about it...Well, don't bother. Dust off your golf clubs and go for 'Old Fart Of The Century Award'. (There are cheap golf-balls on offer elsewhere in the forum...)
The hardest part as I see it, Splitshot, is making up your whether to go for it... Or just write it off as 'experience'.

[splitshot]

Sounds like a plan---I do love the boat--I remember when I was in the Sixth grade, a buddie and I took it out and boy did it handle nice.... It layed into the waves so soft and solid. You can't beat how it felt. I've wanted a boat that handled like it ever since I rode in it....
Thanks for the schedule ----I have got about 4 restoration books from Amazon that I'm reading so I can understand what you guy's are telling me.

As we speak I am cleaning out my shed --33x40 to get ready for Smoky Joe. I even poured a new concrete pad for it. I do want to build a new frame work for it to sit on. The trailer it's on has caused some hogging, and it's very flimsy. I need to get a diagram of where Chris Craft wants there supports placed. I have a good idea but I want to be sure. I also want to put some wt. on that hog for awhile to see it it will improve. What goes up must come down. (hopefully).---The books are really helping with everything. I"m even starting to understand what you guy's are telling me. The first two things I noticed when I started researching restorations was the tremendous number of terms for boat parts, and the fact that so many experienced people do restorations differently--methods--compounds etc. I think when I decide on my direction I will be more confident. My problem lies in being able to tell if something needs to be addressed or not. Like I really don,t want to have to flip the boat and replace the bottom, but I know I will feel a lot better knowing I have a bottom under me that will last for years..I don't mine doing the normal fussing over her as long as I know the bottom is sound.. I think between my new texts, CPES, 3M 5200, and the boat forum--I might be able to pull this thing off. I will get someone to survey the boat before I do much with it. I know it will take me at least a couple of years to get her going. Especially since I have so many other projects started. I also know this is a project that I don't have to work on to make someone else happy.. and as I think about it .. setting small goals makes really good since with a project of this nature.. My grandfather once told me " son-- if you take care of the little things the big things will take care of themselves" Don't ask why he told me that, but it was a very costly lesson. However, it has served me well over the years in a lot of different ways.

[dr.j]

Splitshot, I think that you are on the right track by researching various methods of repair for your boat. What is important, is knowing and using the correct methods when performing the actual refit. Since your boat is of carvel (plank on frame) construction, it is important to focus your research on that particular subject matter. I have never found it beneficial in the long term to use epoxies to act as substitutes for properly repairing structural parts of a boat. "Get rot" or other types of stop-gap measures are not what should be employed when maintaining wooden boats. There are many uses for epoxies in the repair of watercraft, however, most of them involve lamination in areas above the waterline. Not as structural patches. There is not one part of a boat, structural or otherwise, that cannot or should not be replaced by anything other than like materials. I agree that removing the engine is necessary if the engine requires rebuilding or the areas below require attention. If they do not, then simply shore up the beds from below. The fuel and water tanks are another matter. If a boat has been sitting for extended periods, then addressing them is probably nececessary. The bow, along the keel, chine, and at the transom as well as any location that carries more weight than the basic plank and frame should have support. For the most part a basic "T" type of shore is acceptable.. It is also important to support the horn timber well as it is the main "backbone" of the aft areas of this type of boat.The horn timber is the structural part that is joined to the keel and extends aft to the transom. It supports the aft section.As concerns flipping your boat to address the bottom. I am of the opinion that this serves no productive purpose. Any repairs can and should be conducted in the orientation that the boat exists. If you can post more in-depth photos of the wetted (bottom) surface, including closeups of the bow to keel, keel to transom areas as well as along the chine and of any areas that contain decay it would help. Especially the rotted section at the plank butt located at midship below and aft of the port side window. Once you have shored the boat up and given her a real good clean up of course...

[Bergalia]

You see, Splitshot, - more advice than you can wave a steamed rib at...
Young dr.j suggests he sees no useful purpose in turning the hull for bottom repairs. A matter of taste. I'd suggest it for ease of working (considering your age ). On a larger, more unweildy craft I'd agree with him. But anything to make the task easier should be considered.
Don't worry about all the 'technical names' - they do vary from different parts of the world - even different parts of the same country. Just look at the piece and work out logically what purpose it serves. Hooks, knees, breasts and ribs...are all self explanitory when seen in-situ.
Too much 'book reading' can spoil common sense. But don't throw them away, when pupled they can always be used as emergency wadding.
But thoroughly agree with dr.j. Epoxies are fine in many circumstances...But are not the panacea for all ills. They won't replace the love, care, and craftsmanship of the original builder. Now stop chattering, and get on with it.

[PAR]

SplitShot, I work on these types of boats (wooden almost exclusively) everyday, spending the whole day rewiring a 41 year old Thomson just today.

I took a good look at your pictures and most of this boat is spent, well past is serviceable life. Age, neglect, rot, UV and zero maintenance has placed a well buried nail in the coffin of this boat. She's not done, but will require considerably more then her value (restored) in cash, materials and effort to bring back. I'll bet 90% of her frames are broken, 100% of her planking needs replacement, major repairs to other structural members if not replacement, complete: rewiring, plumbing and refinishing, the engine and transmission are done, plus the several trash cans of junk that must be removed just to see the surfaces of her innards.

I've taken on projects like this, spent many thousands of hours returning them back to serviceable condition. I know the tricks, understand the concepts, materials, methods and techniques. You are at a disadvantage in this regard, learning "on the fly" is a very expensive education usually. For this reason, I strongly recommend you let someone else handle the redo of this craft. There are many late 40's Chris's available, some in far better condition.

It would be one thing if a coat of paint and a new engine would return her to service, but every system and every element of her structure is suspect and will require repair. This is a lot to ask of a beginner. I've seen way to many projects start of with the best of intentions, just to find they've gotten in well over their head and a good boat is now no longer sellable, because it's in pieces and you're the guy with the map to it's assembly.

In my area I know of a dozen boats off the top of my head that are easy fixed and within the ability of the backyard Joe's scope. A few of these boats just need an engine and paint. There are also organizations dedicated to the saving of old wooden craft.

Clean out the junk, roll her into the shade and get some good photos of her. Place an ad or have an agent sell her for you. Then look for a project that doesn't need every system and most of her structure replaced.

Chris Craft built their boats light, which produced good performance, but lead to maintenance issues down the road. Chris Craft has a large and devoted following, seek them out. This is where you'll likely find a deal on a good, but worn boat, rather then the near death project you currently are considering. I'm mean no personal offence with this post, just a stern talking to, from a guy who repairs these boats everyday. It's sad to see them die, 80% of the hopeful owners, looking to hire me, have waited to long or came into ownership too late for a reasonable attempt at restoration or repair. Some of these classics get the treatment because they have a noted history or are rare enough to warrant salvage, but the vast majority aren't so lucky and slowly rot before the owners tearful eyes.

[cyclops]

Par is right. There is a Chris Craft Club on the web . Do a search and contact them. They have people who will GLADLY rebuild her. Try to get your price. The buyers have the money to buy, save and win a show with her. The key word is, "money". Surveyors can be cheap, compared to what can be a dog that is prettied up for a quick sale.

[jomo]

have any of you guys ever mixed powdered copper with epoxy for a barrier bottom coat? i saw somewhere, net i think, where a guy used this fomula and had pretty good success with it. i still plan on using and ablative anti-fouling over it. all this goes on a 40' wooden cutter, double diagonal planked with approx. 3/8" glass and epoxy hull.
jomo

[Bergalia]

Originally Posted by jomo

have any of you guys ever mixed powdered copper with epoxy for a barrier bottom coat? i saw somewhere, net i think, where a guy used this fomula and had pretty good success with it. i still plan on using and ablative anti-fouling over it. all this goes on a 40' wooden cutter, double diagonal planked with approx. 3/8" glass and epoxy hull.
jomo

Question is Jomo, if you're adding anti-fouling anyway, why put on what could prove an expensive barrier bottom coat - unless the original hull is in a ratty state. Surely it's gilding the lilly

[PAR]

For copper to be effective as a beastie killer, it must be exposed to the environment it will have to fend off from attack. Entombed in an epoxy matrix, it can have little exposure and therefore little help as an anti fouling coating. Second, those areas of epoxy, near the LWL will receive various levels of UV, which will breakdown the epoxy pretty quickly. With paint (of any kind) over this copper/epoxy mixture, there would be only contact through breaches in the paint and less effectiveness from the copper's ability to kill things we don't want on our boats.