Blackrock 24 (Build)

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by LP, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    So 60 - 70 pounds to fill the seams?
     
  2. LP
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    LP Flying Boatman

    Possibly so. I hadn't thought of it from that perspective. Fortunately my FAT seams are down low. It was painfully obvious the amount of filler that wasting into the lower seams.
     
  3. LP
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    LP Flying Boatman

    Finally on a port tack.

    Finally tilted her the other direction to expose the nearside upper planking for fairing. Fairing is progressing. Both upper are mostly done, including the turn of the bilge. I've had 3 days of continuous work and progress has been relatively good. My arms aren't complaining to bad, but fairing the hull is very physical. Once I'm comfortable with the shape of the cedar (upper) planking, I'll start work on the fir (lower) planks.

    From the rough fair that I did with an aggressive plane setting, I go back with a finer setting to get a more consistent hull shape. Again, I'm working mostly at angles to the plank, working in one direction and then the other. As I get closer to the final finish, I set the plane finer and finer until its only removing gossamer thin trimmings and it only hits the highest portions od the hull. I am completely amazed at the versatility of a block plane when it comes to working such changing surface! The same tool can work the nearly flat surfaces of midships to the long, graceful curves in the bow sections to the tight radius at the turn of the bilge. Only minor changes to the cutting depth are required to make the transition. Occasionally, I get to a place where I can't seem to get the plane to work it's magic and what that really means is that it is time to sharpen the blade......again. I am always sharpening the blade. I'll sharpen the blade half a dozen times or more in a day. maybe as often as once an hour if I'm really cutting material.

    The plane has an immense capacity for fairing the hull, but when I feel it has done it's job, I reach for the long boards. My long boards aren't that long. Mine were made to fit a cut 21"x3" sanding belt. I have two. One is made with 1/4" ply and is used on the tighter radii and one made from 1/2" ply for the flatter areas of the hull. They both currently have 36 grit belts on them and this does a great job on the cedar though they do tend to leave deeper scratches than I prefer. Their cutting ability overrides the detriment of the scratching. I wasn't sure if the 1/2" board would be flexible enough to be useful. I has worked admirably those places of low curvature. Even in the bow sections, it has enough flex to be held 90 degrees to the grain (sanding with the grain) to get some real final shaping.

    When I'm done with the long boards, I hit the surface with the orbital sander and 80 grit. What a relief to have a machine finally doing some work rather than my arms (and elbows (and back (and legs etc.))) doing all of the work. The 80 grit doesn't quite get the 36 grit scratches as quickly as I would like for it to so I may do an intermediate round of 60 grit on a hard backed sander to get the scratches and to keep the seams from going proud. Other than a little difficulty with the heavy grit scratches the 80 grit leaves a nice finish and will be as fine as I go in preparation for sheathing.

    Interestingly, each successive step in fairing reveals the unfairness of the previous step. It doesn't matter how many times you sweep your hand across the hull, feeling for those little imperfections, the next finer fair progression is going to reveal a spot overlooked. There is a constant "backing up" in the fairing process to the more aggressive processes to bring a rouge spot into fair. The final eighty grit sanding makes most imperfections noticeable. Just fractions of a millimeter become obvious and the choice has to be made as to how "perfect" you going to try to make your hull. You start asking yourself, "What is good enough and what is not?" Perfection comes at a high price of time investment. Conversely, imperfection comes at a high time investment if it has to be corrected later in the building process. What a circular conundrum?

    And lastly, the photo. Not necessarily any great visual changes. I think you can see the finer shape of the hull appearing though.

    IMG_3124.JPG
     
  4. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    When you get to this stage, you have to make a decision as to how fair you want and more importantly if a high build primer (home made or other wise) will also fill the lows. It's also important to attempt to figure out if you need to knock down the highs of fill the lows. Usually the coarse long board will knock down the highs pretty good, so the lows get brought up, but when you get to a very fine stage, like this, maybe primer is an option.

    I usually to a "up and back" scratch with the long board, to identify the lows, mark them, then fill with a few coats of high build. Knock this down and see if you need more. Eventually, you'll be ready for a full boat prime, at which point you can fine tune the fair to your liking.
     
  5. LP
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    LP Flying Boatman

    I should have invested time in laying planks by wood tone as I plan to bright finish the hull above the waterline. My decision not to was based on the wood tones in my now 10 year old first build. While you still see the tonal changes, if you look for them, they are much less prevalent than when first completed. So I said, "Screw it," and let the colors fall as they may. The point I am building to is that I am starting high and fairing down and have little option for building up the lows unless I resort to building with coats of straight epoxy. I know of one area that I was careless and created a low that I am fighting to make fair by modifying the surrounding area. Below the water, my options are improved and have already used some fairing balloons. But so it goes. "Good enough" sounds bad when taken out of context, but it depends on what "good enough" is. :?:
     
  6. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Well, bright finishes changes the equation and you don't have many options, even if you do use neat epoxy in the lows. I've done this on a few occasions and it's tough to not get a blotchy look with a 2 mm deeper pool under several areas of varnish. I was successful, by intentionally making a long tapered "ramp" down to the the low spots. On the occasions I didn't, there was a decided blotchy look.
     
  7. LP
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    LP Flying Boatman

    Some day I'll grow out of this bright finish foolishness. I have to admit that a bright finished boat is a real attention getter and my kids are more surprised if someone doesn't comment on my boats at the boat ramp than when they do. An occasional few moments of glory :cool: in an often mundane world. :( I'm cutting back on this one, but I'm still going to make it obvious that this is a wooden boat. In many ways, an anachronism. In some ways, I'm hoping that differences in plank coloring will distract the eye from the slab sidedness I may have from constraining the beam to fit a 7' 10 1/2" (8') garage door and also have firm bilges for higher initial stability.
     
  8. LP
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    LP Flying Boatman

    Still plugging away.

    Still at it in between work and family outings. I spent a weekend on the St. Lawrence with the runabout doing some fishing, knee boarding and general touring.

    The more I finish and fair my hull, the more imperfections I find. I thought the starboard side was ready, but when I ran my hand over it recently with thoughts sheathing running through my head, I started finding flaws that we're not noticeable before. I believe that as the surface gets finer, surface imperfections become much more obvious. I had not rechecked the surface after running an 80 grit orbital over it and upon returning to, all kinds surface variations were found. I bit the bullet and started working the full length of the hull.....again. I put together a third fairing board that is the most flexible, yet. I put a 60 grit belt on this one and used it after taking down humps and bumbs with the 36 grit boards. There are a few areas where there are minor "lows" that I will have to live with or try to build up with epoxy coats. All in all, I'm ready to call the starboard side good and ready for sheathing.

    I've been trying to sort my way through a small dilemma that I have regarding matters of the hull. Pointy and sharp corners or rounded ones. Specifically, the stem and transom edges. Sharp edges are subject to damage while rounded are less likely suffer damage. On a rounded edge, I can also get an overlap of sheathing material for added reinforcement in those areas. I am still drawn to putting on sharp corners so I'm putting it out here for input from forum members. Sheathing is just around the corner :p, so I need to put this to bed before long.
     
  9. LP
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    LP Flying Boatman

    One side is glassed!

    It was an eventful day today. I started out sanding out the dabs of fairing and fillers that I put on yesterday to finalize complete the hull preparations. I cleaned up the hull ( a major blow out with compressed air ) and rolled out about 25' 7 oz. glass cloth. A quick time to the hardware store got me some foam rollers, mixing buckets and spreaders. A quick lunch and it was out to the shop to start mixing some major amounts of epoxy. This was a day of firsts for me. I knew that I was NOT going to be pumping out 1 oz. squirts of epoxy to glass a 24' hull. I don't have scales so I started by counting the number of squirts it would take to fill my measuring cups. The numbers were consistent so I started with a cup of resin to 1/2 cup hardener (2 to 1 ratio epoxy). My wife had this spread in no time so I graduated to a three cup mix. This was convenient since I could pour two cups of resin and one cup of hardener with a good squeegee of the cup between filling to keep the ratios right. This worked better, but the wife was still getting it on quicker than I could mix it. A few batches down the road, I realized that the quantities that I was mixing was agreeing perfectly with the graduations on my mixing container. My initial apprehensions with using the graduations on the $1.97 one quart mixing container went away. I poured resin to the 16 oz. line and then added hardener to the 24 oz. line and had enough cup left to mix without spillage. I could finally keep ahead of my wife's progress and monitor the progress closer. We must have put on a gallon of epoxy today. I've never mixed so much epoxy in a day or in such large batches. I wife's labors really moved thing along and the entire side was completed in less that two hours. :D:D:D

    Two pics today. The first is just after the initial wet out, but before rewetting the "dry" areas. there are some spots visible in the photo. We also got a filler coat on later to start the weave filling process. The second pic is a close up of the planks with the filled seams under glass. I like the way it turned out. It reminds me of filled deck seams on an old mahogany runabout.

    IMG_3198.JPG IMG_3196.JPG

    The plan tomorrow is to repeat the process on the left side. Woo! Woo! :cool:
     
  10. LP
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    LP Flying Boatman

    The trouble with bubbles.

    Yesterday while building coats I noticed fair amount of bubbles in my epoxy coats. I'm building thickness/weave filling by rolling on coats of epoxy. I thought that it was the result of rolling too fast, but rerolling in slow strokes and very light pressure did nothing to remove the bubbles. If anything, it made it worse. Nothing to do with speed or pressure. I think the epoxy was thickening and this encouraged the formation of more bubbles. Ultimately, I let it go tacky and hit it with a scraper to "squeegee" out the bubbles with out screwing with the coating too much. I'm thinking that I need to "tip" out the bubbles, but I don't recall having the problem before. Some areas are clear of and other are not. I'm trying to figure out if I heated my epoxy if it would thin it enough to keep the bubbles forming. I believe that they are the result of rolling the epoxy and most of the bubbles are pop, but for some reason the epoxy is thickening to the point the bubbles are remaining. I'm not taking that long per pot. I'm mixing 12 oz. batches for weave filling and it only takes 10 minutes to roll out that amount, maybe 15 minutes at the outside. This amount almost covers half of on side of the hull.

    Guess I'll go get some brushes to tip with. I'm hesitant to tip as it messes with the uniformity of the coating.

    Input?
     
  11. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Rolling will make bubbles, tipping can help, but they seem to always appear. Use a torch, waved over the surface, which will pop the bubbles. You'll do this a lot, but it does pop them. This is one reason I prefer a squeegee for application. It provides an easily controlled film thickness, without many bubbles. Why are you using just straight epoxy (my assumption)? If filling the weave (other than bright finishes) I always thicken the bulk up coats, so I can do it in once shot, again application with a plastic applicator or squeegee.
     
  12. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    Second PAR's technique(s). Generally I use a hair dryer to 'pop' the bubbles. It just lets the epoxy thin enough to let them flow out to the surface. Can help wet out too, depending on type of cloth. Paint stripper gun is preferred by some but can be too hot. Squeegee will only primarily work in a vertical orientation on the very curved part of the hull bottom, but can be good for collecting excess goo and starting the next 'stripe' along.

    Strange how that glue stained hairdryer stays in the workshop...;)

    LP, I enjoyed your descriptions on fairing the hull with your plane. You definitely got to feel the blade edge and condition. Better as you found to resharpen often as the work is easier and smoother. Too many force a blunt edge, not realising that the glue lines in ply and laminates take the edge off pretty fast.
     
  13. LP
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    LP Flying Boatman

    Thanks, Guys.

    Maybe I'm being lazy of something. I'm leaving the bright option open for the topsides and it's so easy to pour the unthickened epoxy on the bottom to be rolled down the sides. The heat idea is great. I'm planning on doing scraper coats for the final filling and finish stages. I guess I've not really rolled large areas before. My first hull I did by scraping, but could only do very thin coats. I think I may have better control since this is my third major hull. Maybe, this is why you say My brand of epoxy is too thin for you, Paul.

    I've got one side mostly filler and should be doing the second round of filling on the other side today. It's worked out well that I've had around 48 hours of cure time before sanding. I work one, one day and then the other the next. The third day I get back to the first for sanding and filling again. I only work with slow epoxy and cooler temps up here slow the curing process. Anyways, the two cure puts a nice, hard cure on the epoxy before sanding. Sanding uncared epoxy only clogs the sand paper and I'm thinking it may be more of a source for developing epoxy sensitivity than contact with the wet stuff. Typically, a person protects for the wet stuff, but as soon as the epoxy sets, the gloves come off and little particles uncured epoxy dust that under a sleeve or cuff may cause the same kind of reaction. I've been blessed with the sensitivity and it left me know when I've been careless. I've areas on my insides wrists that are irritated right now. I'm thinking it's from careless glove used during this wet out stage. I broke my own rule not reusing a wet glove. Normally, if I pull a glove off, it stays off until the following day or later until any epoxy that is present is cured and inert. I give my gloves an alcohol scrub before I take them off, but this only takes off the majority of the epoxy. The inside wrist area is where you grab a glove to pull it on and at least one glove can get contamination on the inside if the glove pulling it on has ANY residue on it. I don't think there is any way to absolutely clean all traces from a tool or glove.

    The up side :rolleyes: to the sensitivity thing is it looks and feels like a for of eczema and a strong cortisone cream knocks down the itch and starts the healing process.
     
  14. LP
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    LP Flying Boatman

    SS,

    Thanks for the feedback on my writing. It's good to know that people are reading it AND that I'm making sense. I especially like to convey those moments when things start working well and progress is noticeable and maybe a little bit easier.
     

  15. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    LP, if you have any broken skin wounds that won't heal, try Manuka Honey (the irradiated version) on the skin. Apart from having to keep a small bandage around it, as it is sticky (as expected) it is remarkably effective at healing burns, tears and lesions that do not want to heal. Over her in the UK they have started to use it to clear up infections in hospitals as well as for serious burns patients.

    Be sure to get the irradiated version, so safe to use on skin/flesh and free from any risk of botulism. I needed it on something worse than Atheletes foot some years back and it did more in 12 hours than a month of penicillin.

    Keep up the good work with the boat and blog. Some of us DO appreciate it.
     
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