Any good wooden CC Corinthian resources?

[salimbag]

Yup, I'm doing it. Jumping into a 1967 Corinthian as a fun(?) and rewarding (?) project. Actually, the boat is in reasonably good shape. The survey revealed a wealth of minor problems (belts, hoses, clamps, detectors, etc.) but nothing major, so we'll keep our fingers crossed.

I'm writing because despite lurking in libraries and cruising the web I am finding very few resources about this boat. I have managed to scrounge manuals for the engines (427 Ford gas), transmission (I think it's the right one), and most accessories. Was there something akin to an operator's manual for this boat? Is there anything out there, a manual or book, that relates more to the structure of this specific boat? For example, things like removing the headliner, messing with the control console, linkages, etc?

I will be refinishing the hull, and fortunately am finding what I think are good resources out here. Sand, treat with penetrating epoxy sealer, caulk with 3M 4200/5200, paint. (I have been corresponding with the Rotdoctor, besides numerous other resources. I also just ordered Jim Trefethen's book.)

So to boil it down any general advice would be appreciated, but the specific question is are there any books or manuals specifically addressing the Corinthian? I see Commander and Roamer support groups and books galore, and occasional Constellation goodies, but little out there for the lowly Corinthian. Any help?

I found this on the web, liked it, just in case we need a dose of humility:
"Now a 30 year old 40+ foot long wooden boat with two finicky gas motors is a cantankerous contraption that will defy nature and science to remain broken down and in the dock. They have a mind of their own. If they don’t want to run, don’t make them. By their very nature, the boat wants to sink, the engines want to break down and the gas tank wants to explode. Things like electrolysis actually dissolve metal, anything steel rusts, wood rots. Top it all off, the seagulls steal anything shiny, and crap on anything flat. There is an infinite number of variables at play, and they all work against you."

Glad I could cheer up your day!

[gonzo]

The one modification that will save you money, time and agravation is to convert to electronic ignition. It is a bolt on swap for the points and condenser.

[salimbag]

Thanks. This is something I had have seen fleeting references to and planned to look into. I have been active in experimental airplanes and remember similar conversions that people made to the VW-based aeronautical engines, and they were pretty simple - swap out the distributor and bold on the ignition module. Do you know of any sources for parts or instruction for EG conversion for the 427 Fords?

Thanks!

[Kyle]

Salimbag,

You might try searching e-bay under chris craft. There is always an engine manual for 427f's and sales lit. on your model. It doesn't happen weekly but I've seen them there on occasion. Hundley chris craft out of Dallas, Tx. may also have some parts that you might need. He parts out alot of 60's model cc cruisers. Kind of high priced, but if ya gotta have it. One last place is the Mariners museum. Chris Craft donated all of there archives to the museum.
Good Luck.
Kyle

[WoodButcher]

I am afraid that I have to disagree on the subject of replacing
"points and condensers" with electronic ignition.

I rarely mess with inboard engines, but have a whole bunch
of experience with older outboards; personally, I would
NEVER convert any of my (about 150 total) outboard
engines to electronic ignition.

Points and condenser ignition systems are easy to
diagnose and repair, cheap to buy parts for, and
reliable in that failures generally occur slowly, providing
plenty of warning (through poor running) that
a problem is occuring.

Electronic ignition, on the other hand, is easy to
damage, expensive to buy replacement parts for, and
prone to fail all at once with no warning. The last time
I had to be "towed-in" (1980) was due to an electronic
ignition failure. True, this was an early version but later
versions suffer the same failure mode; i.e. one second the
engine runs, the next second it does not.

Plus, the conversion does not elimanate ALL the parts of
the ignition system that may fail; the coil for example.
Or wiring, which is the cause of many "failures."

I suppose the argument can be made that electronic ignition
gives one a slightly more efficient engine, but the difference
between electronic ignition and a well-tuned "points and condenser"
system is not that great.

Here is a "good read" on the benefits of simplicity when
talking about engines operating in the marine environment:

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/GasEngines.htm

[salimbag]

Thanks for this. I'll keep reading. Part of the fun is this is learning all this, reviewing the various opinions.

I'll be working overseas for awhile, so probably won't get a chance to experiment with any of this for few months, but I'll keep you posted.

[salimbag]

Oh, believe me, I've searched and searched. I did find the 427 manuals you referred to, as well as manuals for the transmission (I think it's the right one). I'm looking for something more specific to the boat itself - bulkhead panels, electrical systems, headliner, plumbing, routing of control cables, etc. Was there ever a shop or repair manual or even an owner's manual to aid in such work? The tangle of cables and wires crammed in the control duct is a pretty intimidating mess. I know that with patience and time I could decode it all, but a manual of some sort would sure help!

[gonzo]

Woodbutcher: electronic ignition is more reliable than points and condenser. It has a much lesser failure rate and longer durability. For example, 100 hrs is the recomended service life for points. Electronic components don't need servicing. As for troubleshooting, it is easier too. All you need is a multimeter. Other advantages are more precise timing that doesn't get out of adjustment with wear. Less warranty claims show that electronics are more durable and reliable too.

[WoodButcher]

I respect your opinion, but the engine that I currently
have mounted on my 1957 Crestliner is a 1940
Johnson PO-15 that, at far as I can tell, is
running on it's origninal set of points.

I did replace the condenser (opposed-twin
cylinder engine with one set of points & one
condenser) but that was not to correct a
problem, but rather to experiment with
matching-up the microfarad capacity of modern
condensers with the old square-shaped condenser
that was original equipement to the engine. The
motor was still running on the old condenser.

For the same reason, there is a float in the carb
made from a bottle-stopper cork; I like to
experiment.

I have dozens of these old engines. For example,
the 1950's OMC engines (main & auxilary) that
I run on my "main" boat have points & condensers
that cost me about nine bucks for an "engine set,"
so I have been replacing them every few years.
But I have other 1950's era outboards that, as
far as I can determine, still have and still run on their
original factory-installed P's and C's,

Some electronic ignition can be trouble-shot with
a multi-meter, and some can not; depends upon
the system.

Even dealers have trouble "figureing-out" electronic
ignition; I have seen repair invoices for outboards
with multiple "black-boxes" replaced. I guess that I
am supposed to beleive that it all "crapped-out" at
the same time.

Two examples below; both engines reported "no spark:"

Example A; early-'90s 40 hp Mercury. Got a new stator
and a new switch-box. Invoice over $600.00 parts
and labor. Certified Mercury dealer.

Example B; 1962 40 hp Evinrude; Cost of new points,
condensers, plug wires, plugs, coils (if cracked) total
about $80.00 (retail) for parts, plus about 1 to 1 1/2 hour of
do-it-yourself labor. Work done by me (not certified
by OMC, but probably "certifiable.")

One would have a very hard time convincing me that
electronic ignition is worth mounting on an engine that
originally did not have it.

[PAR]

Do you (WoodButcher) honestly think that every, yes, every engine manufacture would change out a reliable (as you call it) system for the less reliable (as you call it) electronic package? I've had more trouble with burned points and spent condensers then any electronic ignition system. Gonzo has much more experience in his authorized service centers, then I, but clearly the facts are quite simple to read.

Maybe you've had great success with your conventional ignitions, but no manufacture is cutting costs by reverting back to them. After the billions that get spent on research and development are proven out in the dramatic drop in warranty claims and repair reports, your argument doesn't hold a spark. This says nothing of the advantage of integrating the electronic ignition with a fuel delivery, timing, shifting and host of other packages to further increase the level of reliably and durably.

The best thing you can do for the standard ignition is toss the contents under the cap and load up an electronic package, replace the coil, wires and plugs while you're there and forget about it for the next 1000+ hours.

[WoodButcher]

Mr. PAR;


"The best thing you can do for the standard ignition is toss the contents under the cap and load up an electronic package, replace the coil, wires and plugs while you're there and forget about it for the next 1000+ hours."




Do you really think that 38-year-old gasoline engines
have another 1000+ hours of life left in them?

And a lot of the parts you are changing in the above
quote are not related to the elctronic "package;"
i.e. you would have to change them anyway.


The existing ignition system worked fine for the
first 38 years of these engines' existence. With
a good "tune-up," the original system will probably
last as long as the engines will last. Merely replace
all the parts that you mentioned replacing (plus
the cap) and substitute new points, condenser,
and rotor for the much more expensive "electronic
package."

There will be plenty of other opportunities to expend
cash on the boat in question; save the cash for these
other "projects.".

You gentlemen are entitled to your opinions
and I am always happy to engage in discourse on
subjects of varying content, but in the interest of
avoiding boring the readers I will let matters stand
that I will never convince you to just leave these
old engines alone, and you will never convince me
to install expensive "high-tech" electronics on engines
that worked fine for 38 years without them and that
maybe have only a limited amount of life left
in them.

[salimbag]

Here's a good one: Is there any advantage in fuel efficiency with either standard or electronic ignition? (I can't imagine there is.) But now that I've made this elegant segue, what CAN be done to help efficiency? Other forums have mentioned more modern carbs that can be leaned way out. Any word on that or other ideas?

Back to my original post: Any good resources about the construction and maintanece of this boat?

[WoodButcher]

A retrofitted electronic ignition system will have
a SLIGHT advantage in fuel burn over standard
ignition in those old engines.

In my opinion, keeping your existing ignition and
carbs in good "tune" will provide the most
"cost-effective" boost in efficiency; i.e
the most "bang for your buck.".

But, no matter what you do, a 38 foot planing
boat with (2) 1960's technology big-block 300 hp
engines is never going to qualify as an "economy"
boat when it comes to fuel consumption.

If you really want to save fuel, repower with a
pair of new small-blocks with fuel injection and
electronic ignition and a warranty.

Of course, that will cost a lot more money "up-front"
than running what you have already bought, assuming
what you have already bought has some life left.

Considering that most pleasure boats are actually
run very little, I personally think that fuel costs
will be a minor portion of the total expense associated
with this boat.

[gonzo]

You make some good points. The reasons for better fuel economy are higher spark voltage, less current which makes plugs last longer and timing doesn't change.

[WoodButcher]

By the way, I am assuming that this
is the boat @ Willie's Hidden Harbor.