Alder wood in boat building...?

[midiman]

I happened to come across alder in our local lumber supply shop. Since it felt very light and looked nice I got some and built these oars. Layering it with teak. Their stock is very large. It is very hard to find good quality lumber such as spruce, fir or cedar. They carry alder because it is used as a cherry look alike for cabinet making.

Has anyone ever used alder in larger amounts and if so for what? How would it compare to white pine?

Thanks

[masalai]

Try some of the drop tests as outlined by "catmando2"? in the thread on kiri / powlina in this forum,
Kiri properties
Post #7

[PAR]

Alder (a birch) is seen in two basic types (there are several sub species) red alder is found in the western USA and speckled in the east.

It's not particularly dense (about 28 pounds a cubic foot) and known to be the great imitator, as it can be stained to match many different woods. It holds fasteners well, but require pilot holes to prevent splitting. It glues well and can fuzz up with aggressive sanding. It carves and machines well. It also bends quite readily. My understanding is it has limited rot resistance, so use it well sealed and on the interior of a boat.

[kengrome]

If I'm not mistaken, Alder is the same wood used by Whittier Wood Products in all their unfinished ready-to-assemble wood furniture products:

http://www.whittierwood.com/prod/indoor/70Windoor.html

It seems hard, strong and fine grained.

[cahudson42]

Here is some info from two references: Hoadly, 'Understanding Wood'. Two tables showing strength and rot resistance of various woods. Alder is in the 'lowest rot resistance' group. It is also relatively low in strength properties.

Monk, "How to Build Wooden Boats' has a couple pages on what woods to use for what. Alder isn't mentioned.

If I were to use it, I'd consider sealing it first with something like System III Silvertip 'laminating resin' epoxy - just as I do for plywood. Best would be sealing after everything is cut to shape so you get the nooks and crannies etc. Not cheap stuff - but you can get a 'sample kit' which includes a little to play with for about $30 from System III.

I think I'd not hesitate to use it for interiors etc. with the epoxy treatment. You might want to run some tests if you are going to use it for exterior planking - where cypress or cedar might be more commonly used.

Good Luck!
Chris

P.S - remember the epoxy is not UV resistant so you will need to marine varnish over it, paint, etc.

[Ben Biron]

Interesting that Mahogany isn't included in these references. Anyone have similar info on Mahogany (rot resistance, strength, etc.). Of particular interest to me would be Honduras, Phillipine, and whatever is commonly used for outdoor patio decks.
Thanks
Ben

[cahudson42]

Glen L. Witt, the founder of Glen-L, has in his book "Boatbuilding with Plywood' a couple pages on wood species characteristics and their utility in boatbuilding, Mahogany included.

While the context is in use with plywood, he gives general information about each wood.

This book is an excellent modern (Enlarged Third Edition) reference on plywood boatbuilding, and wooden boat building in general. Available from Glen-L, I found it well worth its cost.

The book of course covers 'stitch-'n-glue' - but it is definitely not just a sales-pitch for it. It is an excellent overall reference and 'howto'.

Nothing on Red Alder. But here is some info on 'Common Alder' from 'The New Encyclopedia of American Trees: "Alder timber is waterproof, and has been used to make products such as boats and water pipes. It also forms the foundations of many of the buildings in Venice..." Remember, this is Common Alder being talked about - not Red Alder. There could be big differences - as between Red and White Oak..

Chris

[TollyWally]

Where I come from, PNW, alder is extremely common, grows everywhere. It's decent for furniture but it's weak and rots faster than you can imagine. It looks good, you could get away with it on non structural interior woodwork in a vessel large enough to have interior spaces that truly stay dry. But I wouldn't use it for anything other than thin plywood insets in cabinetry etc. myself. Just my .02