Boat Design Forums  |  Boat Design Directory  |  Boat Design Gallery  |  Boat Design Wiki (beta)  |  Boat Design Book Store  |  Thanks to Our Site Sponsors  |  Sitemap

Go Back   Boat Design Forums > Design > Propulsion > Surface Drives
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-28-2009, 03:31 AM
PetterM's Avatar
PetterM PetterM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Rep: 10 Posts: 110
Location: Southampton
Variable Pitch Surface Drive?

Is the world ready for a new Variable Pitch Surface Drive?
With low or no appendage drag, high propulsive efficiency, shallow draft and good low speed maneuverability, the combination of surface piercing and variable pitch should have a considerable advantage over conventional solutions, provided both few challenges both technical and commercial challenges can be overcome.

List of Variable Pitch Surface Drives:
Yellowfin VSD (made quite a few non commercial units, but never made it into production)
FRANCE HELICES (only made one?)
Servogear AS (made one installed on a patrol boat in Norway)
CPS- Drive (made two test units installed on one specially designed catamaran in Norway)
Stormfagel (still going, only one made so far in Sweden)
Escher Wyss (7 blades, used on a SES in Norway, don’t know of any other installations)
Have I missed any out?
__________________
www.berserkdesign.com
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-30-2009, 02:40 PM
PetterM's Avatar
PetterM PetterM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Rep: 10 Posts: 110
Location: Southampton
Am I the only one interested in variable pitch surface drives?
__________________
www.berserkdesign.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-30-2009, 02:53 PM
baeckmo baeckmo is offline
Hydrodynamics
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Rep: 215 Posts: 220
Location: Sweden
Yes! The performance gain is not compensating for the "loss of simplicity" (=increase in cost). This is what determines market success.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-30-2009, 03:00 PM
PetterM's Avatar
PetterM PetterM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Rep: 10 Posts: 110
Location: Southampton
the performance gains can be very significant though. A well designed variable pitch surface piercing propeller can run at 80% efficiency. Combine this with good acceleration then and maneuverability then it should be interesting?
__________________
www.berserkdesign.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-30-2009, 04:15 PM
apex1's Avatar
apex1 apex1 is offline
Steamer
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Rep: 592 Posts: 2,788
Location: Hamburg
I would recalculate that Petter! The market is always right when it comes to "cost / gain" comparison.
__________________
Fortior est qui se quam qui fortissima vincit Moenia.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-30-2009, 06:11 PM
baeckmo baeckmo is offline
Hydrodynamics
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Rep: 215 Posts: 220
Location: Sweden
Quote:
Originally Posted by PetterM View Post
the performance gains can be very significant though.
That is questionable from a functional standpoint. You must remember that a ventilated propeller, as well as a supercavitating one, has an operating characteristics completely different from a submerged, non-cavitating propeller! What is holding back the surface piercers is a combination of facts:

1/ The majority of vessels where spprop might be applied are planing boats with short, beamy hulls. Typical for these is a very high hump drag; about as high as the cruising drag at about 30 to 50 % of the cruising speed.

2/ In the fully vented speed range (ie the advance ratio up to ~60 % of design) the spprop thrust factor kt is constant, independent of pitch. This means that in that operating range, there is little improvement in thrust, no matter how you change the pitch (or rpm for that matter).

3/ With reduced pitch setting, the blade tips will operate base-ventilated (as if they run in the high advance/low load region). The low advance speed thrust from the important high relative speed tip region is thus reduced further.

Combine the propeller thrust characteristics (2 and 3) with the drag characteristics of the major target group in the market (1), you find that there will be problems with the hump region. There is only one solution to that, no matter P/D ratio, and that is propeller working disc area.

As long as you have enough thrust (=area) to pass the hump in fully vented condition, cruising and top speed will come without fuss at base vented operation with high efficiency.

The "natural" hull shape for spprops is in fact the slender hull, either mono or catamaran. With a slenderness ratio (LWL/Displ^0.33) above ~6, the hump is no longer a problem, either in planing or displacement mode. It is an unfortunate irony that the spp in "modern" boating minds has become so completely associated with high speed applications, when it is actually very well suited to medium speed operation.

Proof of this is work at former Denny Shipbuilding (?), who produced a number of displacement vessels with surface propellers back in the 1920:ies and were planning a new development programme as late as 1963. Another proof, known to most "forumists" here is Frosty's catamaran with excellent performance due to the characteristics of hull and propeller working together.

So, until we have blade profiles for ventilated operation, that have continually rising thrust with reducing advance ratio, the controllable pitch surface propeller is simply not adding enough technical value for the market target, to warrant its success! There are simpler solutions to the problem!
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yellowfin Vairable Pitch Surface Drive Willallison Surface Drives 54 09-28-2009 04:47 AM
FRANCE HELICES variable pitch surface drive PetterM Surface Drives 4 03-18-2009 12:58 PM
Variable Pitch Props Woodnaut Outboards 13 07-15-2006 04:31 PM
variable pitch captword Boat Design 11 03-31-2005 01:34 AM
Design of variable pitch propellers? anybody got a clue? Freddy Lemieux Boat Design 13 08-02-2004 06:01 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:32 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin 3 Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Web Site Design and Content Copyright ©1999 - 2009 Boat Design Net