direct surface drive questions

[tom kane]

Future proofing a (fixed?) direct surface drive by making provisions for later adjustments of shaft angle should be a good idea.
Image shows a propeller being changed while the boat is in the water. Drive is fully trimable. A trimable drive does not have crucial clearances and any difficult lining up problems or leaking glands.

[whitepointer23]

if anyone is interested there is a complete arnusson surface drive on aus ebay at the moment for $1000 au. i don't know how to put up a link for it but it should be easy to find.

[Steve H]

I switched from fixed surface drives to Arnesons several years ago, using all used parts and I'm quite happy with the results. It was a big project for me and I must say that I could not have pulled it off without Rik's patient advice and assistance. I have about 500 hard hours on the Arnesons now with very few problems.

[tom kane]

Hi Steve H, would you tell us what brought about your changes.

[Steve H]

Hi Tom,

The boat didn't handle "bad". When loaded light and kept at moderate cruising speeds (30 to 40MPH) it was just fine. It had a few quirks that I didn't like, and many Harleys came from the factory with Arnesons already on them. So it wasn't a huge stretch of the mind to consider them.
Before installing the Arnesons the boat was a handful at full speed as a result of sternlift. If ran it up to 45 or more mph, it was very hard to steer in a straight line. Just a breathe of cross wind or any other disturbance, it wanted to lean over and turn. After a bit of seat time I could do a reasonable job of piloting it at high speed, but it wasn't any fun.
Also it had a hard time getting on plane when fully loaded. It holds approx 850 gallons of fuel, but typically it has less than 500 plus four big guys, food drink, etc when heading out for a long trip. I would have to drop the tabs all the way down to get on plane and keep it over 30 mph to stay on plane until we had burned off some fuel. This was a major problem in large following seas.
Dock handling was terrible. With the props behind rather than under, they did not have enough leverage when using gears to spin the boat around in tight spots. I learned to compensate eventually doing a good job as long as the wind and current were absent. But in my neck of the woods those conditions are rare at best.
It now handles very similiar to any other OB or I/O that I have owned in the past. I still have the stern lift issue, but it is very minor compared to what it was prior to the Arnesons. An unexpected benefit is the noise level and vibration is way down. The dock handling is much better now, but I still ended up putting a bow thruster in anyway. The boat is very, very, light for it's size and it doesn't take much wind to swing the bow to exactly where you don't want it. Getting on plane is a non issue with the drives trimmed down, even when fully loaded. It was a big job, but worth it to me.
I read alot of static on this site about maintenance issues with the Arnesons. I don't think any of the critical comments have came from an actual Arneson owner, so how anyone can actually critisize them without owning them is a mystery to me.
Steve

[tom kane]

Many thank`s for that info I understand what you are saying thank`s.

[Frosty]

There is horses for courses. If I had a 40 foot 100mph 1000HP speed boat that I trailered to the lake I would without doubt have Arnesons. But as you well know there are many kinds of boats with totally different requirements.

A boat that lives in the sea for a year or two before hauling for an antifoul would find Arnesons difficult to maintain.

If you had have had help with your fixed as you did with the Arnesons perhaps you would have been successful with them too. Perhaps a propelor change might have helped. The comment that your fixed gave stern lift and the AS did not can only be the propellor

The Atlantic challenger was fixed.

I would like to know how much a pair of Arnesons are but I am unable to find out.

[tom kane]

Originally Posted by Frosty

A trimmable drive offers enormous problems compared to fixed, thrust, steering rams etc and has no or little trimmable effect on the hull itself but just to unload the prop under take off that a correct sized propeller vented with exhaust wont have.

If the boat is to be left in the water for any length of time fouling rams and pipes will be constantly in need of attention.

Home made trimmable drives rarely look professional yet the simplicity of fixed can.

A trimmable drive can have the same drive train parts ( including thrust) as a fixed drive except that provision is made for the shaft to rise and fall which makes it easy to fit and remove at any time.You can have all of the working mechanical parts inside of the boat away from damage. It can be adjusted from the helm at any time and be safe from groundings.

Build it with the best of materials and it wil last forever. A vented prop is a fad and is not necessary as the transom clears of water on acceleration. A home made trimmable drive can be flashy as you like and a price that can be afforded.Why not have all the good features in your package.

If you get caught out in a fast following sea with a fixed drive (or a Jet) and you can not go fast enough to ride the seas safely you will wish you could lower your drive for better thrust.

[Steve H]

Originally Posted by Frosty

There is horses for courses. If I had a 40 foot 100mph 1000HP speed boat that I trailered to the lake I would without doubt have Arnesons. But as you well know there are many kinds of boats with totally different requirements.

My boat is used in salt and fresh, weighs in around 15,000 light and 20,000lbs heavy, and cruises anywhere from 18 to 40 mph depending on conditions. Definitely more utility than hotrod.

Originally Posted by Frosty

A boat that lives in the sea for a year or two before hauling for an antifoul would find Arnesons difficult to maintain.

My boat was kept moored the first eight years I owned it, and four of those were with the Arnesons. It was hauled each year for a bottom job and fluid chages on the drives. Granted the drives needed scraped and painted, but so did everything else that was below the water line.

Originally Posted by Frosty

If you had have had help with your fixed as you did with the Arnesons perhaps you would have been successful with them too. Perhaps a propelor change might have helped. The comment that your fixed gave stern lift and the AS did not can only be the propellor.

Can only be the propeller?..... Really?.... I had tried several sets of props before ditching the fixed drives. Everything from 4 blade choppers, cleavers, round ears, high rake, low rake, add cup take out cup, you name it. I even had a custom made set installed that did no better. I run the same porps as I always have. The reason the sternlift has been minimized is because I can now trim the drives up while under way as I increase speed. [/quote]

Originally Posted by Frosty

The Atlantic challenger was fixed..

I'm sure if I had Richard Branson's budget I could have had a very cool set of custom fixed drives designed and built by a top notch naval construction yard. He probably paid more for one prop than I paid for my entire boat

Originally Posted by Frosty

I would like to know how much a pair of Arnesons are but I am unable to find out.

I think that the ASD6 which is similiar to the old 1720s that I am running is around 15,000US. That is a kit that comes with everything needed to install it, steering, trim rams etc.

[Rik]

Steve, unfortunately you will just have to accept that “Frosty” is laden with negativity and disbelief. No sense in forgiving his short comings as even I cannot come to a reasoning with him and his denial and misinformation propaganda. Owe to the mighty barnacle that could be. Please don’t tell him about your secret “Tabasco Sauce” anti-barnacle rub you developed for the Arneson Surface Drives problem with marine growth.

For some reason, he is under the false impression that Arnesons are only on go fast boats that spend their entire life in a warehouse with a dedicated cleaning staff to constantly polish them to a brilliant shine and luster, when in fact this could not be farther from the truth as you yourself (someone with experience) can attest to.

When the topic of stern lift is brought up, possibly others picked upon the fact, that shaft angle might be camouflaging itself as stern lift and not so much the propeller as you stated you continued to use the same propellers. Being he is proposing “fixed” shafts, there is no flexibility in that inherit design so possibly there is a reason that the Arnesons are adjustable beyond a shining glare into the horizon from their highly polished sheen signaling the mermaids of their location.

Frosty, cost depends upon application. We manufacture 11 different sizes and models so in order to accurately quote a size we need all the parameters of the application. A standard ASD8 is around $17K U.S. ($) F.O.B. USA. This has never been secret but at the same time you have never been serious enough to submit an application for a pricing quote.