petrol to diesel

[the black devil]

hi everyone my friend has a 21ft searay with a 140hp mercruiser petrol 4cyl max rpm 4200
i dont know what type of a leg he has on or what reduction it is
i was thinking it was maby an alpha one
he is thinking of replacing it with a diesel something like a 1900 peugeot 110hp 4500 rpm or a nissan 2.7 130 hp
what would you guys reccommend

cheers gerard

[Landlubber]

what is wrong with the Merc.......

[marshmat]

Assuming typical use of a 21' Sea Ray, the fuel savings from switching to a diesel are unlikely to ever make up for the capital cost. We're talking here about a boat that, if used like most 21-foot runabouts are used, burns maybe four hundred bucks worth of gas in a summer and rarely goes more than twenty or thirty miles in any one trip.

As Landlubber asks, what's wrong with the Merc that would have one thinking about a replacement? (And yes, it's probably an Alpha, as this is the only Merc drive you ever see hooked up to the three-litre four banger.)

[CDK]

Originally Posted by Landlubber

what is wrong with the Merc.......

Virtually everything, the design is over 50 years old.
It wastes fuel, the water pump and manifold corrodes away, the head gasket between cyl 2 and 3 burns through, the timing chain cover rusts through, the starter bracket breaks off and the dual barrel carb has a single needle for both barrels so the idle mixture cannot be properly adjusted.

And these are just the first things that come to mind...

The Peugeot would be a good choice. Fuel costs are reduced by 75% if you use red diesel and there is no sacrifice in performance. Lancing marine has the necessary parts, there is a thread in the diy marinizing section on this forum.

[the black devil]

the engine was seized solid when he bought it and looks as if it has been lyin under water for ten years
the bottom halr of the leg is also cracked at the nose cone

cheers gerard

[Landlubber]

CDK, not exactly what I meant mate, I was referring to the engine condition.....only agree that there are better things available.

[fcfc]

Originally Posted by Landlubber

what is wrong with the Merc.......

Nothing.

The only problem is gasoline should be around 1.5€/l at the dock, which translate for US guys at roughly 8$/gallon.

BTW, 1900 peugeot 110hp is not a good choice. It is a common rail diesel engine. Easier and cheaper to use 1900 / 92hp (XUD9T) or 2500 / 110hp (XUD11T) which are mecanically indirect injected engines.

XUD9T has been marinised by vetus (older Vetus P4 engines), and marinising parts are available from several suppliers.

Dont know for nissan engine.

[anthony goodson]

Red diesel!! I remember that ,

[CDK]

Originally Posted by Landlubber

CDK, not exactly what I meant mate, I was referring to the engine condition.....only agree that there are better things available.

Sorry Landlubber, I misinterpreted your remark. I've owned 5 of these 3.0 Ltrs, so I'm a bit allergic to Mercruiser engines.

[marshmat]

I advise friends to take a pass on the Merc, too. But if it's already there and working, one may as well keep it.

In BlackDevil (Gerard)'s case, we appear to have a seized motor and a cracked outdrive housing. So keeping it is not an option.

Is the boat itself in good enough condition to warrant a full re-power job? If it's a sturdy hull with a lot of life left in it, then perhaps yes, but I don't see much point in spending ten grand to re-power something with mushy stringers and a biology experiment running in the transom core.

I'm not too familiar with the Peugeot diesels- Canadians keep asking the European car makers to send more of these things over to our side of the pond, but so far only VW and Benz have answered the call to any significant degree. Not sure what FCFC means about the common-rail version being a bad choice, though- is it the computer control you're worried about?

[liki]

Using "red diesel" in boats should be outlawed in the EC area by now, shouldn't it?

[fcfc]

Originally Posted by marshmat

Not sure what FCFC means about the common-rail version being a bad choice, though- is it the computer control you're worried about?

One knwon problem of peugeot XUD9 marinisation is marine corrosion problem. That why Vetus and seenergie (french mariniser) stopped using them.

One advantage is that it was one of best sold diesel engine, and technically among the best before electronically controlled ones. So it is easily available where Peugoet/Citroen where sold, for nearly nothing at wreck, or in recondionned state.

The 1900/110 is the less older electronically controlled common rail version. Still has the corrosion problems, is much much less frequent to find in running state, and had has electronic control for common rail direct injection much harder to marinize, or even to repair.

Both have a timing belt.

Do not know if the XUD9 92 hp has enough power for the application.

What would be better is the Ford 140 hp from lancingmarine. Mechanical direct injection + timing chain, but only available as new. So all the question of repowering cost and value for an older boat Marshmat pointed are sadly true.

[anthony goodson]

Before you make any decisions about re-powering with diesel, consider this.It is now a criminal offence in the UK to use red diesel ON WHICH FULL ROAD FUEL DUTY HAS NOT BEEN PAID to propel a leisure craft. Lower taxed Red can be used for heating and cooking only. The loophole of self declaration left open by HMRC will be closed soon with extreme penalties.Will you ever recoup the extra capital expenditure of a diesel ? Apart from the safety factor there is little advantage.Just another benefit of our joining the EU.

[CDK]

Originally Posted by liki

Using "red diesel" in boats should be outlawed in the EC area by now, shouldn't it?

Even outside the EC it is a mortal sin. There are rumours that the water police or customs stop you, unscrew your fuel filter and if it is red in there escort you to the nearest port, where they do ugly things to you.
I have never witnessed such an event and think such stories are just to scare people.

I resent paying taxes in general but understand the purpose of fuel tax for road traffic. For my boat, which is used at sea and for which I pay an annual tax that should be used to clean the beaches and maintain the beacons (but it is not), I prefer fuel without taxes. It is bad enough that I pay VAT on the red fuel, the fisherman use blue diesel without any taxes and use that in their VW Golf as well.

[CDK]

Originally Posted by fcfc

One knwon problem of peugeot XUD9 marinisation is marine corrosion problem. That why Vetus and seenergie (french mariniser) stopped using them.

One advantage is that it was one of best sold diesel engine, and technically among the best before electronically controlled ones. So it is easily available where Peugoet/Citroen where sold, for nearly nothing at wreck, or in recondionned state.

The 1900/110 is the less older electronically controlled common rail version. Still has the corrosion problems, is much much less frequent to find in running state, and had has electronic control for common rail direct injection much harder to marinize, or even to repair.

Both have a timing belt.

Do not know if the XUD9 92 hp has enough power for the application.

What would be better is the Ford 140 hp from lancingmarine. Mechanical direct injection + timing chain, but only available as new. So all the question of repowering cost and value for an older boat Marshmat pointed are sadly true.

Except for the timing belt (used by VW also) I think the small Peugeots are excellent engines, but I agree that the common rail engine is a bit tricky because you need the MMU and associated wiring, things that normally remain in the engine spender unless you are present when the car is dismantled. And you need full details about the unit to make it believe it is still in a car. With a correctly built cooling system there can be no corrosion problems.

The Ford is a Transit engine upgraded with a turbo charger and dual circuit cooling. A sturdy engine, but for some reason much louder than a Peugeot.