stability with speed

[nyalex]

Originally Posted by apex1

All not easy,

if you can afford it they envy that, if you can´t they **** you.

Have enemies only, you can rely on their behaviour! Friends are what gets you down! They are not what one assumes.

Clear, fixed rules with enemies make a good and reliable life. The wishy washy with "friends" is what kills you.

You may be right here. I little depressing, but probably true. I am in the middle of resizing 85 topsail schooner from Nordia to 65 feet. But I like how it is in 85 feet/23 foot beam. So, now I am confused a little. 85 has great speed and stability, but how easy is it to handle? The biggest boat I sailed was 58 footer, I have not idea how 85 footer handles. Will they even have space in marinas for something that big .... probably need bow thrusters, too. And crew, and you mentioned before, Richard. Then I am wondering if changing it from aluminum to wood is possible using same dimentions, or it woud have to be completely redone, since original is aluminum. On enemies/friends ... it's real easy to make enemies in big cities like NY/Bangkok/Moscow. But I got a country home in Pennsylvania, and there some nice friendly country folks there whom I would not call enemies. Maybe large cities are not best places for making friends, too competitive.

Altering a design is almost always a expensive way. Finding a design that fits is less costly. Even a fully custom design is the better solution. Van Dam has some boats in the 65´range I remember. But I do´nt remember the style.

A 85´is twice the boat than a 65´ you know? You cannot keep it in "Bristol shape" with family crew. A 65´is already hard to service for some 3 people.

No, you cannot alter a metal design to wood or GRP! That is a complete new design.

Regards
Richard

[nyalex]

Yes, you right, Richard. Nordia has 65 footers but not with schooner rig. Not the same look either. Those are more like pilothouses. I guess I will have to design one from scratch. But it's OK, I have many photos and specifications, should not be too hard. My NA told me going from 42 to 85 is 8 times the boat and costs. I know boats are 3 dimentional. I am more concerned with getting the right boat than costs. Well, it looks like I am ready to submit my requirments to the architect. That's good progress. Thanks, Richard. And others who posted on this forum/internet.

Good luck............

[nyalex]

Thanks. I think I got it from here.

[nyalex]

OK, let's see if anyone knows about this. If I build my schooner in Neitherlands and I want to register it in USA and get HIN here. I read the official regulations, but in reality ... are they going to make problems for me for not manufacturing boat using USA yard or something like that? Customs can be a nationalistic xenophobic pain in my posterior, even in USA. Current government attitude, and I quote what one of them said to me: "We can do whatever we want."

Not much of a response on that.

Of course you can register every boat in every country worldwide when it is compliant with the classification rules.

You may find this one coming close to your demand!
http://www.nigelirens.com/FRAMEmagbcruisingnotes.htm

It is a wood epoxy built, having less heat load under tropical sun than a Al. vessel.
And I could lead you to some extremely good places to build it.

Regards
Richard

[nyalex]

Good link. Let me see. I have British NA with royal whatever doing 2 large designs and one 16 footer design (boat in tow) for recreation, French NA is supposed to be doing one design, but he's taking his sweet time ... I might do one aluminum design with Dutch, but since it's a classic schooner I feel I should use classic materials. So, wood/epoxy seems to be a prime choice, cold mold construction. I should have plans complete soon enough. For builders, custom boat builder in Thailand gave quote of $350,000 for 60 footer. Some people I know in USA suggested building it here in a warehouse, maybe using Cherubini people as consultants/builders or with own professional crew. Haven't checked into Neitherlands builders yet. It's going to look like 85 Van Dam Nordia Classic Topsail schooner in 60 feet, with other designs in 50 and 65. That's my progress so far. It seems lots of certifications can be foregone if it's boat for myself and I don't sell it for 5 years, according to US regulations. I don't know what kind of certifications required in Europe. All designs are by professional NAs, so they all should float and sail well. Who did you have in mind, Richard, and what type of costs I would be looking in Neitherlands, if you maybe know a range?

A 60ft at 350.000$ is just crap! That is sure. But with a telephone pole as mast..........

Lets see what your NA brings on the table and how serious the adventure gets, before talking the building part.

[nyalex]

Originally Posted by apex1

A 60ft at 350.000$ is just crap! That is sure. But with a telephone pole as mast..........

Lets see what your NA brings on the table and how serious the adventure gets, before talking the building part.

The good new is that hard part is over. 90% is deciding what you want. The rest is relatively easy. Shouldn't be too hard once the building plans are completed. What makes you think Thai builder (european guy with thai labor and yard) is so bad? As long as he sticks to design ... ? I don't know about this, but skilled labor there is less than $2 per hour.

Lets wait and see how much comes true in the end.

There have been very good yachts built in Thailand, no doubt. Philanderer was one of the first. Long ago.
But it is not only low wages what makes the price and value of a yacht. Skills and efficiency are key factors too. In both fields Asia is far behind European standards.
And ALL equipment costs the same here and there (or nearly the same). So, when you get a boat at 25% of the average price, you get 25% of the average value. A higher quality / value is possible only with a perfect project management and quality control. Both not easy and not for free.

[nyalex]

Originally Posted by apex1

Lets wait and see how much comes true in the end.

There have been very good yachts built in Thailand, no doubt. Philanderer was one of the first. Long ago.
But it is not only low wages what makes the price and value of a yacht. Skills and efficiency are key factors too. In both fields Asia is far behind European standards.
And ALL equipment costs the same here and there (or nearly the same). So, when you get a boat at 25% of the average price, you get 25% of the average value. A higher quality / value is possible only with a perfect project management and quality control. Both not easy and not for free.

Thai builder's original price was starting at over $500,000. He came down after I pointed out that minimum wage in Thailand is less than $1 per hour, closer to 50 cents per hour. I don't know how hard it could be to follow professional NA plans ... but I did have something built in Thailand before. Land Rover 88, 1963, for offroad. Thai guy took it apart, rebuilt it from scratch. Cleaned rust from chassis, welded/painted, rebuilt diesel engine, etc. Great job, not expensive, and can't tell you how much fun offroad, very capable. So I know they can do good work and they are not stupid. I just don't know how good they are at building boats. There are other issues, too, like bringing a foreign built boat to US. They have some requirement that it has to be done through US boat dealer. Have to look in that more. Didn't get confirmation from Cherubini if they will build the boat. Anyway, it's all at beginning stages now. Lots of yards and builders available. I am not worried.