Seaworthiness

[Guillermo]

Hi, Perry! Nice poem.
I ow you an answer to your e-mail. Somewhat lazy these days (well, pretty busy and tired when at home), but I promise to do it soon.
All the best.

[Pericles]

Guillermo,

No worries. Permanent tiredness is the bane of our lives.

Seaworthy without the calculations eh?

http://www.hildringstimen.no/BATLISTA.HTM

http://www.humberships.org.uk/humber...l-origins.html

I can visualise you at the helm of this replica lateen rigged San Francisco Silena rounding the mark in hot pursuit of the two sailing boats.

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...asics-cruising Scroll down.

Very best wishes,

Perry

[Crag Cay]

Or as it is inscribed on the wall of our club:

"And may there be no groaning at the bar.
When I put out to sea."

[Guillermo]

Perry,
I'd rather see myself at the helm of one of these Galician "dornas":

[Pericles]

Oh, to organise a race between both craft. A dream devoutly to be wished.

The Silena is carrying a headsail, which is surprising considering that lateen spar looks a bit long. If I remember correctly from a previous thread, the Dorna carries a rather large rudder, but no centreboard. Or was that another Galician speciality?

I wonder if the National Maritime Museum, San Francisco could be persuaded to loan & ship their Silena to Pontevedra for a Double Continent series?

http://www.nps.gov/safr/index.htm

What do you think? Worth an email?

http://www.nps.gov/PWR/sendmail.htm?...safr/index.htm

It could be called the "Monterey Challenge". Two weeks in Pontevedra.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monterey_clipper

Two weeks in Pontevedra?????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galician_cuisine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galician_wine

I am drooling now...........

Perry

[Guillermo]

Well, such a race would be a delight, indeed! No worrying about who loses or wins, as long as ther is enough sparkling Galician wine to share with friends!

The dornas have a very long rudder, as well as the "gamelas" I posted in these threads a while ago. Here you have some dorna drawings:





About coming to Pontevedra, you know it's only a matter of a short flight from London to santiago de Compostela, my friend....

[Pericles]

Gamelas & Dornas all having a great time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM_zRL0MNbA&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-gsALltXKI

[Guillermo]

Great seaworthy boats (to their intended use), unluckily not recognized as such by the present commercial fishing as well as the RCD regulations. This fact has brought them to almost extinction a few decades ago, but luckily a group of enthousistic particulars and associations took the challenge of reviving them. Nowadays there is a pretty healthy and growing fleet of such boats, which actively take part in all kind of gatherings, regattas, etc, along the Galician coast and abroad.

Every two years the "Federación Galega pola Cultura Marítima e Fluvial" a federation of around 45 traditional boats related associations in Galicia (I have to say I'm a member of its Board) organizes most succesful "Encontros" (Gatherings) in one of the many seaside villages, which becomes a great celebration and "fiesta", like the last one in Muros 2009:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlExj...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tjv4...eature=related

This year we will have the next one in Carril, June the 30th, 1,2 & 3 of July. All of you are kindly invited to come and enjoy.

All the best.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Guillermo

Great seaworthy boats (to their intended use), unluckily not recognized as such by the present commercial fishing as well as the RCD regulations.

I don't know your local legislation but according EU directives you, or anyone willing to use such boats, can give a finger to the authorities in this regard bcs the traditional nature of these boats.. (me thinks..) ??

[Guillermo]

Traditional boats (design prior to 1950) are not covered by the RCD and the problem is that there are not alternative statutory regulations for them in Spain, this creating problems when you want to register (mandatory) one of such boats. The requirements from the point of view of the inherent safety (design) is at the criteria of every particular Maritime Authority Inspection at each port, proving to be a randomly varying one. A dammned confusion.

Most of these boats are open ones with rather low freeboards, so downflooding and capsizing in a gust is a close posssibility if you are not well trained. Most of the inspectors are asking for the adition of fixed floatation chambers at the sides, able to provide enough righting arms at 90º of heel, but this alters significantly the whole character and spirit of the traditional boat concept.

At the Federación we are fighting for a devoted regulation regarding the requisites for the using of traditional boats (i.e. requiring specialized training in their use, extra safety equipment, etc) rather than a regulation for their building, because they are what they are, designed and built following the traditional methods.

Cheers.

[TeddyDiver]

Well... seems to one of these problems with these "know it all" authorities. Sometimes the only way is to get them to sue one user (by using unregistered traditional vessel for it's intended use), go throw the route of national courts untill it's possible apply to EU court. It's a long road but in some cases the only chance to get things straight.

[Guillermo]

Well, we prefer the way of talking to and convincing them. We are not far from arriving to something useful, I think. Next week we have a meeting to talk about these matters, as well as about maritime heritage. We'll see.

[Pericles]

Guillermo,

How does the RCD apply to the GP 14 that was designed by Jack Holt in 1949? My brother & three friends renovated one in the early 70s. Our father oversaw the work and they hand scrapped the entire hull and mast with shards of window glass, (an old woodworking tip) until the old man was satisfied; his father had been an apprenticed cabinet maker and attention to detail ran in the family. I thought the vessel was too nicely finished to get it wet.

Buoyancy consisted only of a couple of airbags and considering the umpteen times they capsized, the dinghy seemed safe enough, although when it turned turtle their swearing could be heard on shore. The GP14 has been upgraded as far as buoyancy is concerned, but as for self righting at 90º of heel, I don't think so! Getting soaked is part of the fun.

http://www.gp14.co.uk/page/page.php?editorial_id=98

We have even older classes, with a new vessel launched in 2007.

http://www.bseaonedesign.net/history/history.htm

Does the RCD exception for UK boats built for own use and not placed on the market within five years, apply in Spain?

Best regards,

Perry

[Guillermo]

Perry,
the RCD does not apply only to those models designed before 1950 and buil essentially with the original materials and techniques. So if the new GP14 are nowadays built in GRP, they are covered by the Directive IF (and only IF) used as recreational boats, not for racing. Racing boats are also out of the scope of the RCD.

And yes, boats built by amateurs in Spain for their own use are also not covered by the Directive and cannot be put in the market before 5 years, as in the rest of the EC. It is important to remark, though, that EC marking is anyhow mandatory if the boat is put into the market after that time. So, if an amateur built boat is unable to comply with the Directive at a reasonable cost when intended to be sold, problems will arise for sure.

Cheers.

[BATAAN]

Originally Posted by Guillermo

Well, such a race would be a delight, indeed! No worrying about who loses or wins, as long as ther is enough sparkling Galician wine to share with friends!

The dornas have a very long rudder, as well as the "gamelas" I posted in these threads a while ago. Here you have some dorna drawings:





About coming to Pontevedra, you know it's only a matter of a short flight from London to santiago de Compostela, my friend....

Wow, so very like a coble with the deep forefoot and raking deep rudder!