Yard Class ( proposed sailboat class)

Pretty much what I had in mind.

Such would be easy to trailer or car top, with the mast being closer to the same length as the hull, if not shorter. Such could also built with bolt together sections.

I think lower initial cost will equal greater experimentation.

 

These sorts of formulae went out in dinghy design in about the 30s, and for good reason. I've got some old letters from Uffa Fox in a box across the room where he's railing against them in the case of the Canoe class.

The trouble with them is that you end up with boats of such varying type that they don't really race against each other in any meaningful manner. In each individual race there are such differences in boat speed that interest in the actual racing is considerably reduced, and this also means that boats tend to be designed for venues. The example Uffa uses is for boats primarily intended for racing on the inland river Thames and boats for racing at the coast, which would end up with such different dimensions that they could never meaningfully sail against each other.

The other issue is that the design competition is essentially wholly artificial. Because its pretty much beyond the state of human knowledge to put together formulae that actually make for even performance, all you are doing is hunting up the least worst compromise between undesirable features. For example with no sail area limitations, but a rig height one what one tends to end up with is low aspect ratio rigs with huge roach, which tend to be short lived and disappointing in performance. Thus the design competition is really fairly sterile and uninteresting, because it doesn't teach any universal lessons. I suppose an example of this was the UK National 12 sail measurement rules, where they didn't measure area but restricted size with spar measurements and batten length restrictions. They've recently changed the rule because what it ended up with was rather short lives sails because getting the maximum area meant that batten placement was poor, which in turn resulted in high local loads at the batten ends and sails that had an unnecessarily short competitive life.

 

I have just come in from sailing my Duo dinghy. Meets your rules, 10ft long, 3ft wide approx, 16ft mast. But no way would I sit on the floor to sail it!!! Not if I don't want to capsize in the first gust. My wife and I carry it up the beach after sailing, and I launch on a lee shore with some wave breaks. So I want the lightest boat possible, and as I said earlier, I am not yet of "advanced years". Your proposals wouldn't suit my father either, he sails from a similar lee shore beach

A much more interesting design/build/race challenge would be to say. Everyone use a standard Laser rig, board, rudder (which cost peanuts used). No other rules. Levels the playing field somewhat, and keeps costs way down yet still allows lots of meaningful design challenges

Richard Woods

 

The contributors of this forum are far more interested in a development rule than the public in general and it looks like they deem this 'not interesting'. At best it is an interesting exercise to predict the optimum.

Your rules greatest accomplishment appears to be brevity but there isn't much value to that. You suggest that the result would be simple interesting single hand boats with good performance and little demand on skills to sail safe. I think those are a bunch of great qualities well worth making a more sophisticated rule to achieve. I think that there would be demand for a simpler version of the 2.4 -a sit-in that could be carried easily and didn't need a trailer. I have been thinking about what could be done with shifting water ballast. The rule could be a complicated calculation that levels the performance differences of the sailors different masses as long as it is easy to measure and equalize performance.

 

Thank you for your interest in my idea. See my comments in your text.

 

You have some interesting comments here. My responses are in your text.

 

Unless I am missing something there is no limit to the number of spars or sails - correct? Just a maximum total rig height dependent on hull length

RW

 

Thanks for your well reasoned arguments. My responses are in your text.

 

You are correct. You can have as many spars and sails as you want. The only stipulations are that the rig height is tied to the hull length, and that the materials, that you can make the sails and spars out of, are limited

 

Thanks for the link. Interesting that the first discussion I came across was about the issue of crew weight and how more modern materials, such as carbon fiber masts, are making designs, which used to favor heavier crews, favor lighter ones.

 

I don't understand your "tall rig" comment. I must be reading the rules wrong. A 10ft boat can have a 16ft mast in your rules can it not?

But it shows that you cannot have a simple unstayed mast and win. For if I had stays and a higher foredeck the mast would be mounted 2 ft higher, so I could easily have another 16sqft sail area and still be in class.

RW

 

I guess this is the sort of thing you are after?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv6blRZujrU#t=33

RW

 

Apparently she was pretty successful in her day...

 

There are some really wonderful old sailing canoes. I would like to see a class that races these point to point and allows human power when there is no wind. Some would be in it to win, most would be out for a good time.

If you are serious about creating a new class you need to be very clear about the advantages you offer. The classes occupying yacht clubs now have a stronghold and for all the complaints it is just about impossible to justify new ones. Expanding sailing and racing outside the yacht clubs adds a lot of burden for transport, storage, organization... This again is difficult but not impossible. Maybe it can be addressed with technology. I could ramble on about what is wrong and what is needed but I am pretty sure there is a low return on my time because nobody cares what I think. For your interest and convenience I will direct you to Steve Clark's presentation and just say I concur.

http://vimeo.com/51213269

Sharpii -we have had this discussion before and I know you are attracted to the idea of making simple boxy boats that perform better than they look -but they look terrible and I think that you will never find sufficient density of builders to start a class. PD exists and is the best choice for anyone interested in such craft. The 'market' for small boat designs has two crowds -those who have built a boat and they already have too many boats, and those who have never built. The latter are best served by CNC kits of quality designs. Since they don't know what they are doing some can be persuaded to do something simple but most of those will realize that is a mistake when they get to the water. Building is about the joy of building and pride in the result.

Putting a couple ideas together, if a proposed class was partially one design, what would be cheap, common, and standard, and what would be built custom by the sailor to best fit his size and capabilities? The goal would be easy verification and effective leveling in the most attractive sailing experience.

 

See comments in text.