why don't sailboats have wheelhouses/cabins?

[souljour2000]

I think there were simply some strong opinions made here...and largely valid points from both sides..it's too bad this thread got so froggy...

[tom28571]

Perhaps if your sailing is mostly cruising for long distances (not day sailing), a permanent protected enclosure is a welcome thing to have. I know that doing a winter delivery in cold and wet weather in an open cockpit is the pits (pun intended). On the other hand when I sail on a boat in decent weather with even a bimini such that I can't see all of the sails, that is the pits also. that is the point of sailing. Otherwise I'd rather be on a powerboat. Some like to be out in the elements and some don't. Some actually like to be on a monohull that heels in the wind and some like the palatial ballroom of a covered and level catamaran.

Arguments with those that are committed to either are useless. For daysails, even in bad weather, I'd rather be out there. Maybe that is because it feels so good after we get warm and dry when its over

[Brent Swain]

Thats why I like to keep a wheelhouse low enough to see over while sitting in the cockpit. Gives me both options ,for any kind of weather.
Brent

[tom28571]

Originally Posted by Brent Swain

Thats why I like to keep a wheelhouse low enough to see over while sitting in the cockpit. Gives me both options ,for any kind of weather.
Brent

How does that work? Do you have dual steering stations? How big does a boat have to be to make that practical?

[Brent Swain]

Outside, I steer with the tiller . Inside, I steer with a jog stick or auto helm ,hooked up to the trim tab on the trailing edge of the rudder. That makes throwing the rudder hard over in a following sea a one finger operation . A six year old could steer from inside in a big quartering sea.
It's practical in any sized boat, even my 26 footer.
The Argus transport planes are totally controlled by trimtabs.
Brent

[jalmberg]

Originally Posted by thaikarl

i'm new to sailing. i've been crew on my friends 50' ketch that has a wheelhouse built over the cockpit. it sure is nice to get out of the wind and rain and sun! we can open the doors and get in and out to the deck quite easily, and the sides of the wheelhouse open up to handle sheets for jibs and access to job winches. but, i notice that most keel sailboats have canvas dodgers. some of them are quite elaborate. but they look rather "tacked-on" and the plastic windows are hardly as clear as glass.

why don't sailboats have built-in wheelhouses or cabins? i'm sure they would be a liability in a typhoon, but not many of them are EVER going to be in that kind of weather.

http://picasaweb.google.com/thaikarl...eat=directlink

Simple. You can't see the sails if you're under a roof. Even dodgers drive me crazy for that reason. Or are you talking about motoring?

-- John

[Omeron]

Brent, i am intrigued by your statement that the buoyancy in the wheelhouse drastically improves the boats ultimate stability. For the wheelhouse's buoyancy to contribute anything to the stability it must be immersed in water, meaning simply, the boat has inverted! and possibly sinking. A few degrees before that happens,the mass of wheelhouse is actually helping the hull roll further.
In a moment like that i would be rather out on an open deck, than the likelyhood of getting trapped in a wheelhouse.

[apex1]

Originally Posted by Omeron

Brent, i am intrigued by your statement that the buoyancy in the wheelhouse drastically improves the boats ultimate stability.

Nevertheless its true!

[ancient kayaker]

This is one of those "horses for courses" thread where nobody wins or is converted, but interesting nevertheless. Having tried to put a small sail on a kayak, I can vouch for the windage effect of the crew, in some circumstances anyway, even sitting down!

[Crag Cay.]

Nevertheless its true!

The large tall deckhouse is how the RNLI boats generate their AVS of virtually 180 degrees.

The Moody 45DS also includes deckhouse volume in their ultimate stability calculations, but there does seem to be a variation in the way the access door onto the aft deck has been executed in the above examples, especially as both are deemed to ultimately do the same function.

[jalmberg]

Originally Posted by Crag Cay.

The large tall deckhouse is how the RNLI boats generate their AVS of virtually 180 degrees.

The Moody 45DS also includes deckhouse volume in their ultimate stability calculations, but there does seem to be a variation in the way the access door onto the aft deck has been executed in the above examples, especially as both are deemed to ultimately do the same function.

Sorry, but you couldn't give me one of those Moodys... check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yUaQ0sxpTI

The boat needs 2 wheels because the only way to see where you're going is to lean overboard. Totally absurd... It's a power boat with an auxiliary sail.

-- John

[Luckless]

Originally Posted by jalmberg

Simple. You can't see the sails if you're under a roof. Even dodgers drive me crazy for that reason. Or are you talking about motoring?

-- John

Skylights?

[jalmberg]

Originally Posted by Luckless

Skylights?

I think a previous poster got it right... the word 'sailing' means different things to different people, so there are at least two different conversations going on here.

I actually think Brent's low-profile 'deck houses' are totally reasonable compared to that summer cottage on the deck of the Moody.

-- John

[MikeJohns]

This is interesting as I have added low profile pilothouses to vessels before and the stability change is not always so obvious.

Interestingly counter-intuitively a flooding cockpit can actually boost the righting moment over part of the GZ curve (although not inverted) it depends on how the vessel trims longitudinally and sometimes a flooding cockpit actually keeps the more bouyant aft sections in play.

But the GZ curves are very misleading, the propensity of a small vessel to invert in a violent knockdown depends more on the reserve area under the GZ curve past 90 degrees and very little on the curve from 0 to 90. In this regard even a small pilothouse can be quite beneficial.
If the Pilothouse remains intact and the doors are shut it has a significant effect from around 70 degrees heel to 180, but damaged stability goes down ( think of it full of water) . For most of us immersing the sides of the house is enough to save the boat in the first instance.

[capt vimes]

in my opinion it is definitely not a mistake to have a shelterted place from where you still can steer your yacht - within limitations of course...
especially if you are taking this ship on an extended cruise....
i have been too often standing at the helm during night in snow, rain and thunderstorms where i only had to keep the course - one could do from a sheltered place as well...

if the wind- and seaconditions are stable i would very much prefer a small pilothouse from where i can control the course and check the instruments and be well out of the weather...

but one thing must be made clear as well:
if the conditions are bad, the only place to be is the helm in an open cockpit..

why?
one need to be able to see what the sails are doing and where and how the seas are coming from, react quickly and have the lines of your sails at hand and this is something absolutely impossible to do from a pilot- or wheelhouse!

my next yacht will definitely have a pilothouse and the possibility to steer from there, but my place will be most of the time in the open because you cannot sail a yacht from an enclosed place - get the ship in stable conditions from A to B even under sails... that you can do from the pilothouse, but this is nothing i refer to as 'sailing'...

some designs i have put on my list....
http://www.german-yachtbau.de/German...8PH_Risse.html
http://www.atlanticyachts.nl/nieuwja...tlantic%2048hk
http://www.stadtdesign.com/images/products/429_int.jpg