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Old 03-10-2017, 12:31 AM
valery gaulin valery gaulin is offline
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What did we don't understand that they did?

I want to know if somemone can explain me why in northern europe, ex: Netherland, they seam to be producing such amazing steel sailboat and in North America all the steel sailboat I see are pretty much crappy built and design.

What did they understand that we did not in North America. Or is it the other way around?

Are the coating technology today better for rust prevention on steel sailboat or is it still a continuing fight as it used to be?
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  #2  
Old 03-10-2017, 12:53 AM
Mr Efficiency Mr Efficiency is offline
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Rust in cars today is much less than decades ago, there must have been advances in the material and/or coatings.
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  #3  
Old 03-10-2017, 02:52 AM
upchurchmr upchurchmr is offline
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What are you talking about.
How about an example?

Is the same question you asked in another thread with less detail?

I remember a thread about European Stainless Steel boats being more ecologically friendly because they were laser welded.

What justification do you have for calling North American steel boats crappy built and designed?
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:28 AM
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PAR PAR is offline
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Yeah, I have the same issue - grandiose, unsubstantiated suggestions about whatever. How can anyone that this seriously without some quantification.
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  #5  
Old 03-10-2017, 05:23 AM
valery gaulin valery gaulin is offline
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Just check the used steel sailboat market in America and you will see the difference. Not many choice and the one available are not that great looking. There might be for sure some good steel sailbaot in America but it is not very common.

Stainless steel for a material is not a preferred choice for me.
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Old 03-10-2017, 05:59 AM
BertKu BertKu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valery gaulin View Post
Just check the used steel sailboat market in America and you will see the difference. Not many choice and the one available are not that great looking. There might be for sure some good steel sailbaot in America but it is not very common.

Stainless steel for a material is not a preferred choice for me.
Valery, you got yourself in hot water. Let me help you. There is not one Hollander who did not had to go on a boat, had a boat, designed a boat or had to take a ferry or was working on a boat. The are so many waterways in Holland that automatically that industry developed over the 1000 years with all kind of unique features. The Americans had to fly, because the distances are too great and thus they developed their aircraft industry like no other.
I agree with you that Germany, Holland, Denmark etc have some very fine designs. The Americans think that only what comes out of America is the best and we have to live with it. Now we are really both in hot water. Bert
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Old 03-10-2017, 06:14 AM
valery gaulin valery gaulin is offline
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@Bertku: Hahahaha I am with you on that one. "The Americans think that only what comes out of America is the best and we have to live with it"

This probably will start a non constructive discussion.

Mainly I would like to know how come they can keep up with the maintenance of steel construction sailbaot. Most of them are very well kept without a sign of problematic rust like the one we see in America.

The resale value speak to it self! Check the price of a used steel sailboat in America. Very low and very hard to sell. They have a stingma thay steel is just a bouch of rust problem. They got that reputation for a reason. On the other hand in the northen Europe they dont seam to loose value because they are steel it is even the contrary. They seam to maintain their value.
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:56 AM
Barry Barry is online now
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http://www.linssenyachts.com/en/

Several years ago we attended the Seattle Boat show and they had a Linssen steel boat for sale. Built in Holland to be sure
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Old 03-10-2017, 08:14 AM
upchurchmr upchurchmr is offline
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No doubt we all are somewhat proud of whatever we know best.

On the other hand, there are a group of people who think anything "foreign" are the best thing made. In spite of demonstrated higher costs for purchase, maintenence, and shorter life span. I'm thinking automotive now.

To my mind, neither is likely to be correct in general.

A vague unsupported general statement of your biased belief with no facts is no place to start a discussion others will accept - even if you happened to be right.

This is a very Trump like attack.

Put up or shut up. IMHO.
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Old 03-10-2017, 08:17 AM
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hoytedow hoytedow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BertKu View Post
Valery, you got yourself in hot water. Let me help you. There is not one Hollander who did not had to go on a boat, had a boat, designed a boat or had to take a ferry or was working on a boat. The are so many waterways in Holland that automatically that industry developed over the 1000 years with all kind of unique features. The Americans had to fly, because the distances are too great and thus they developed their aircraft industry like no other.
I agree with you that Germany, Holland, Denmark etc have some very fine designs. The Americans think that only what comes out of America is the best and we have to live with it. Now we are really both in hot water. Bert
America is great because in the past we took the best people that the world had to offer. Our German engineers, our Dutch and Scandinavian boat builders and so on. We could not have achieved this without Europeans and others who came here seeking to live free from political oppression. We did make the mistake of allowing the very European politics from which we originally fled to infiltrate themselves into our culture, thus squandering much of the freedoms with which we have heretofore been blessed, but we are working on that too by trying to get back to the founding principles of our founding fathers.

My truck is of Japanese design but was built in Kentucky 11 years ago from parts from all over the free and not so free world. I have no desire to trade it in or sell it so don't ask.
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Old 03-10-2017, 09:06 AM
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gonzo gonzo is offline
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There is a market for commercial steel boats in the USA, that is very productive and profitable. In the recreational market, there are very few interested in steel boats. Therefore, the production is minimal. Aluminum is also replacing a lot of construction that was traditionally made in steel.
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  #12  
Old 03-10-2017, 09:21 AM
valery gaulin valery gaulin is offline
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I think what America master is the "BEST BANG FOR YOUR BUCK" concept. If they are able to put more people on the water because of it great.

What America also master is marketing. Imagine America was able to convince the world that they need to drink a COKE. This is amazing.

But now back on track with my topic. It seams that northern europe favor steel as a boat building material and that there is alot mor small yard building boats than in America. Maybe this is the reason why they favor steel. But how do they keep ot in such nice shape. I doupt that they contantly are fixing rust and stain. Most of their steel pleasure boat are in inpecable shape.

What is their secret???
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Old 03-10-2017, 10:06 AM
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daiquiri daiquiri is offline
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Well, even if perhaps less known than their European counterparts, there are some IMO pretty fine steel yacht builders in the US. For example:
http://www.trinityyachts.com/
http://northwestyachts.com/
http://citadelyachts.com/
http://www.capescottyachts.com/
http://www.beringyachts.com/
http://striker-yacht.com/
http://www.customsteelboats.com/

and, if you are looking for custom plans, there are:
http://www.kastenmarine.com/index.htm
http://www.perryboat.com/

I am pretty sure that even PAR has a couple of steel designs kept somewhere in the drawer.

Cheers
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:21 AM
Stumble Stumble is offline
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This is only a guess, with little to back it up. But I think history and geopolitics has a lot more to do with this type of thing than we normally think.

In the Americas wood was cheap, plentiful and high quality, and has generally remained so even up to today. While wood in Scandinavia even prior to modern times was expensive, hard to acquire, difficult to store, etc.

So going back a hundred years American pleasure boats could quite easily be built from wood of any number of species just as they are today. We have so much good quality wood that depending on where you are building the boat has a lot to do with what wood you will choose to build out of. For us wood was a natural building material until the advent of fiberglass justbecause it was so plentiful. In Scandinavia however because wood was scarce as soon a steel production was capable please boats started being built in it, for cost and accessibility reasons.

Over the years of course the US switched to fiberglass, which is a pretty reasonable alternative to wood. Meaning wood scantlings can be pretty much kept the same when building in fiberglass. But in N Europe where steel was already prevalent people had gotten used to the advantages of steel, and since boat buying is a very conservative undertaking have simply stuck with it.
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  #15  
Old 03-10-2017, 11:27 AM
valery gaulin valery gaulin is offline
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@Stumble: Your explanation makes alot of sense. thank you
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