Weather helm on half tonner

[Charly Setter]

Originally Posted by Garry Hartshorn

The mainsheet trimmer would be working in tandem with the helmsman and be continously feathering. It was also common practice on deliveries and when cruising to reef the main even in very light conditions to balance the boat.

I think this is also common practice on modern boats. Especially taking the huge sail areas into account

This has nothing to do with IOR....

You are right, there are a lot of unfavorable effects of IOR on boat design, but in the end this happens to every formula driven development.

Or do You think IRC and ORC have no influence on boat design ?

[Crag Cay.]

The 'IOR era' spanned quite a long period of time and covered many varied sailing waters. It also incorporated the work of many designers who in turn responded to three major versions of the rule. The generalisations about the IOR are as tiresome as they are often misinformed.

However, that won't stop me making another one! I've sailed tens of thousands of miles on many IOR boats and two in particular; an S&S 1/2 tonner from the early seventies and a Ron Holland 2 tonner from the late 70s that made a national team for the '79 Admirals Cup. Now, although they were as different as chalk and cheese, they, and all the others I sailed, were a joy to steer to windward.

[Garry Hartshorn]

Originally Posted by Charly Setter

I think this is also common practice on modern boats. Especially taking the huge sail areas into account

This has nothing to do with IOR....

You are right, there are a lot of unfavorable effects of IOR on boat design, but in the end this happens to every formula driven development.

Or do You think IRC and ORC have no influence on boat design ?

Yes it is common practice on many modern boats, though I tend to think they are not as unforgiving as the later IOR boats. And yes every rating formular will tend to drive designers to come up with extreme developements, some good and some bad. It is the nature of the game.

Paul

With all due respect, I have well over 250 000 miles at sea under sail in many kinds of boats, cruising, racing and deliveries. I make quite a nice living out of sailing so go shove it where the sun don't shine.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by Garry Hartshorn

Paul

With all due respect, I have well over 250 000 miles at sea under sail in many kinds of boats, cruising, racing and deliveries. I make quite a nice living out of sailing so go shove it where the sun don't shine.

So you have proven that sea miles under power does not correlate to sail trim ability.

Of course this is something we already know.

[gonzo]

Paul B: you have an opinion like all of us. However, it doesn't give you the right to be rude and obnoxious. That attitude is what really causes a disservice to the forum. If you have facts and can refute someone else, go ahead and post them. Calling people names only shows lack of respect and not knowledge.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Calling people names only shows lack of respect and not knowledge.

I did not call anyone "names".

Of course you are one of the people who likes to regurgitate "facts" on these forums, and have also become irritated when your nonsense was pointed out.

If you don't like what I write don't read it.

[Garry Hartshorn]

Paul

Under sail means under sail not under power and yes I have many miles under power as well. But then unlike you I am not a sailing GOD and I never would never suggest that anyones opinion or experiance was invalid and not worthy of listening to.

Now before I start make judgements and misinformed statements about you and your abilities I would suggest that we both be polite and respectful of each other and everyone else on this forum.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by Garry Hartshorn

Now before I start make judgements and misinformed statements about you and your abilities I would suggest that we both be polite and respectful of each other and everyone else on this forum.

By "be polite" you mean don't say anything when you post something utterly ridiculous.

Guys like you post something fundamentally incorrect, then expect the world to accept it as another potentially correct point of view. That's like me going on an auto racing forum and posting that, in my experience, it is faster to go around the track in reverse. That would be invalid and not worth listening to.

Utter gibberish, like saying one needs to reef an IOR boat's main in light air to make it balance, shows a lack of understanding of how things actually work. If you had any real-life experience you would know that on most boats, including pretty much every IOR boat I've ever seen, you would add rake in light air. That has a similar effect as INCREASING mainsail area, not decreasing (as in reefing).

I don't post on a vast majority of the forums on this site, because I have no knowledge of powerboats and their systems, etc. What good would it do for me to log in and repeat some incorrect info that I read on some other board, or post something I simply made up. It would do no good for anyone reading the thread. I have enough respect for the people reading the threads that I don't do things like that.

[Garry Hartshorn]

By polite I mean don't make it a personal attack or infer that anyone who has different ideas to you are idiots, lyers and generally inept morons. By all means you may disagree and put forward an opinion that is exactly the opposite and the other members of the forum can make up their own mind.

[PAR]

Paul you seem to value you opinion considerably more then any one else's. This isn't the first time you've become confrontational and insulting in your posts, with adversarial moments and dialog in many of the threads you participate on. You're not the only experienced poster and your view isn't the only one, nor any more valid then others. Most of what you have said has already been said or acknowledged to some degree without the derogatory retorts. Consider similar and play nice or go and tinker with the Sailing Anarchy kids, who seem to thrive on your personality type.

[Gary Baigent]

Not trying to be antagonistic, Paul, me fellow historical nutter, but *********, when she won at Poole? impressed Jack Knights because the big kiwi dinghy was actually sailed like that, meaning the main was eased on the traveller with mainsail actually pumping at times, headsail flat of course. Laurie or Tony Bouzaid remarked that the boat was faster sailed like that way, staying upright was very important - and Laurie added if the wind had been stronger, ********* would have blitzed the fleet by even a greater margin.

[Gary Baigent]

What, that is very weird!! The ********* bogey hits again, that is meant to be Wave-rider - but her name was bever spelt with a hyphen.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by PAR

Paul you seem to value you opinion considerably more then any one else's.

Imagine hearing from you, another guy whose BS I've pointed out on this forum.

Yes, I do value my opinion in areas where I have expertise. Guys like you and GH spout nonsense, then your pride gets all wound up when it is shown that you are poseurs. Hell, your ego seems to still be smarting from when I called your BS, what a year ago?

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by Gary Baigent

Not trying to be antagonistic, Paul, me fellow historical nutter, but *********, when she won at Poole? impressed Jack Knights because the big kiwi dinghy was actually sailed like that, meaning the main was eased on the traveller with mainsail actually pumping at times, headsail flat of course. Laurie or Tony Bouzaid remarked that the boat was faster sailed like that way, staying upright was very important - and Laurie added if the wind had been stronger, ********* would have blitzed the fleet by even a greater margin.

Sheet on and trav down is a good way to depower and keep it flat. No doubt about it. Works in everything from your Davo HT to J24s to masthead two tonners, etc.

But when you're not overpowered the trav comes up. You won't hold a lane without the boom up as high to CL as you can hold it with the correct amount of heel on. At Poole they weren't doing it because of weather helm (the original point of contention here). I'll bet they weren't reefing in light air either.

Boats with more stability than the Davo would be able to keep the boom on CL longer, and make gains upwind. You don't get something for nothing in Physics or sail trim.

[PAR]

Paul you clearly you don't see how your words are being interpreted by others here. This blatant arrogance and disdain has obliterated this thread into your personal assault blog and proven a disservice to the original poster. There are avenues where you can pursue this course of action, but this isn't one of them. Again please find a more suitable manner to express yourself or leave. Unless I'm completely miss reading the tone of your posts, I suspect the majority on this thread feel the same, if not now turned off and ignoring the thread completely as a result of your lack of elegance.