Van de Stadt 29 Sea Dog steel

[eiltrenova]

Dear Forum,

Does anyone happen to have used plans for this boat. I have looked up Van de Stadt, though they appear to be quite expensive. Anyone's help is much appreciated...Any format would be great...If needed please make any comments on my previous thread "Steel sailing boat, some thoughts..." posted Mar 2011

With thanks

Best Wishes

Andre

[Angélique]

Originally Posted by eiltrenova

Does anyone happen to have used plans for this boat. I have looked up Van de Stadt, though they appear to be quite expensive. Anyone's help is much appreciated...Any format would be great...

Hi Andre,

How about that to be able to design boats they have to pay for all their expenses and also can't do their work without earning a living.

Who's gonna pay them for their work if you don't while using it . . .

Cheers,
Angel

[eiltrenova]

Hi Angel,

It is true there is always somebody out there trying to critique! But never mind, that is how the worlds goes round...
I would like to point out that this design is a boat more than 40 years old and therefore the naval architect(s) who worked on it have their villa assured somewhere in some nice corner of theworld, certainly not on the outskirts of some shanty town of South America... I think not even patent holders for inventions, scientific discoveries, like pharmaceuticals, claim rights over their output after so many years. So, there are some fair 'fat cats' out there. I believe there should be a limit to how much 'white collar' workers can earn as well as the lenght of time they can claim certain rights. Just imagine if one of the welders working in a building yard of the 1970s could claim financial rights over the earnings 'his' boat is still making!!!

I would also like to point out that my request was not to gain anything for free, or perhaps now that you have posted this entry some reader might think so! Indeed, if there is a cost I will consider it and if needed cover it. But certainly I will not pay nearly sixty euros for a 40 year old sheet of paper that has well 'fed' somebody's mouth. And please, avoid such comments as communism etc...this is about a more democratic way of sharing information accessible to 'everyone' and consciences of people are waking up and certain well known practices will soon disappear...

Best wishes,

Andre

[Angélique]

Originally Posted by eiltrenova

I will not pay nearly sixty euros for a 40 year old sheet of paper that has well 'fed' somebody's mouth.

If it was legally offered to you for just € 60 then I think that's very generous whereby I can't understand you said.. ‘‘they appear to be quite expensive’’

Originally Posted by eiltrenova

And please, avoid such comments as communism etc...

I didn't bring anything of that up here or where ever.

Cheers,
Angel

[Nurb]

Originally Posted by eiltrenova

I would also like to point out that my request was not to gain anything for free

Good.

Boat plans are almost always sold with the right to build one boat from the set of plans. The request for someone with "used" boat plans thus caught my attention too. You could buy a "used" set as art or reference as long as your intention wasn't to build a boat from them.

[CutOnce]

Originally Posted by Nurb

Good.

Boat plans are almost always sold with the right to build one boat from the set of plans. The request for someone with "used" boat plans thus caught my attention too. You could buy a "used" set as art or reference as long as your intention wasn't to build a boat from them.

I think the original poster made it clear he needed plans and designer-generated values to legally register the boat in his jurisdiction. As this boat is currently an abandoned derelict (or close to it) there is no existing legal paperwork available.

May be worthwhile to read all the posts before condemning someone for trying to play by the rules. I don't think any designer would object to this, provided he needs the paperwork to establish registration, not build a new hull.

--
CutOnce

[Angélique]

Originally Posted by CutOnce

I think the original poster made it clear he needed plans and designer-generated values to legally register the boat in his jurisdiction. As this boat is currently an abandoned derelict (or close to it) there is no existing legal paperwork available.

May be worthwhile to read all the posts before condemning someone for trying to play by the rules. I don't think any designer would object to this, provided he needs the paperwork to establish registration, not build a new hull.

I think all posters have read all post on this thread so far. There is no info about an existing boat, only a request to respond on an other thread of which no link was given and said here that it is about thoughts. If the openig poster gives that little info he could expect questions like "who's gonna pay for the rights?". If it's only for reference for an existing boat he could have simply said so in his response to my question. Also I don't see any condemning on this thread so far, if it isn't that a question is seen as such . .

It would have supported the request for used plans if the questions about it simply were answered and info about the existing boat was given.

And yes, I happen to have access to those plans but I'm not gonna bother a friend who has them in such an atmosphere . . . .

Anyway, good luck with the boat . .

Cheers,
Angel

[eiltrenova]

Yes, it is amazing, people who love sailing, the freedom to be at sea, see a different horizon every morning and every eve, listening to the waves telling us so many things, and then getting 'tangled up' over such issues... bits of papers and legal issues, money...and ...and...Well, perhaps these are the really important things to worry about in life....not things like...thinking about the environment, our beautiful seas being polluted, cleaning up our beaches, finding inventive ways of safeguarding our nature, sharing our experiences at sea with the people who come from different walks of life...I might get it right one day Angelique and see things from your view point.

...oh, by the way, if it is of any interest to anybody, I spent camping out on a beach a few weeks ago in the mediterranean and before I left I said to my friends that we should collect all the rubbish that we could see...I deem these to be the important things to worry about...not a mear boat plan, and if in the end I will not be able to accomplish my project that would not pose a problem...life goes on and a boat plan is just small detail...

best wishes

Andre

[CutOnce]

Originally Posted by Angélique

I think all posters have read all post on this thread so far. There is no info about an existing boat, only a request to respond on an other thread of which no link was given and said here that it is about thoughts. If the openig poster gives that little info he could expect questions like "who's gonna pay for the rights?". If it's only for reference for an existing boat he could have simply said so in his response to my question. Also I don't see any condemning on this thread so far, if it isn't that a question is seen as such . .

It would have supported the request for used plans if the questions about it simply were answered and info about the existing boat was given.

And yes, I happen to have access to those plans but I'm not gonna bother a friend who has them in such an atmosphere . . . .

Anyway, good luck with the boat . .

Cheers,
Angel

Angélique:

eiltrenova est un nouveau membre de cette forum. Il commence deux "threads" sur le meme sujet - en l'autre il a disait ce que le bateau est abandonnez.

Si vous ne trouvez l'autre, je m'excuse et j'espere que vous accepter mon apologie.

--
CutOnce

[Nurb]

Originally Posted by CutOnce

I think the original poster made it clear he needed plans and designer-generated values to legally register the boat in his jurisdiction. As this boat is currently an abandoned derelict (or close to it) there is no existing legal paperwork available.

May be worthwhile to read all the posts before condemning someone for trying to play by the rules. I don't think any designer would object to this, provided he needs the paperwork to establish registration, not build a new hull.

--
CutOnce

I wasn't condemning anyone. But playing by the rules includes respecting a designer's copyright.
If the plans are under copyright, the designer is the one who should be contacted first. I am not sure where the €60 figure originates. If that is the cost of replacement plans, it does not seem unreasonable IMO.

[welder/fitter]

LOL, wow, tough audience!

For those who weren't following the previous thread: Steel sailing boat, some thoughts...

As was mentioned on the previous thread, Andre, the plans are really not necessary to refitting the boat, although it would be nice to have them. Is the price of almost 60 euros what you were quoted from Van de Stadt?
Mike

[eiltrenova]

I am actually a tramp, so even €6 is quite a bit of money...and revamping an old sailing boat seemed to be a great idea to have a home floating on the water and yes, everyone does seem to be stuck in their own universe: my universe seems to be an old rust bucket, Angel's paying sombody for the hours spent sweating over a sheet of paper, and so on...oh yes, and in Fukushima someone reading this is having a laugh...I join them...that is the little old planet we live on!

[eiltrenova]

Hi Mike, yes everything is so tough out there and that is one reason for which I nearly always wear a red nose!!!

the answer to your Q: that is more or less the price quoted and as mentioned in my previous thread the boat is unregistered, and so I would require some plans for reg...

Many thanks,

[Wynand N]

Im in agreement with Andre

A design 40 years plus has already earned its keep and paid its dues and to ask market related price compared to new designs of similar size is indeed robbery....Even patents expire in 25 years time if Im not mistaken.

If the designer who whom should be now well over 70 years of age at least, or if the plans are owned by a company, it should look at the situation and make the plans that are really obsolete in today's construction terms, engineering and aesthetics, available to those that may still be interested at a small fee to cover expenses and that should not be much, and take the interest as a compliment of a boat well designed in its age and time.....

[waikikin]

Originally Posted by eiltrenova

I am actually a tramp, so even €6 is quite a bit of money...and revamping an old sailing boat seemed to be a great idea to have a home floating on the water and yes, everyone does seem to be stuck in their own universe: my universe seems to be an old rust bucket, Angel's paying sombody for the hours spent sweating over a sheet of paper, and so on...oh yes, and in Fukushima someone reading this is having a laugh...I join them...that is the little old planet we live on!

All my best wishes to achieve the comfortable floating home from the VDStadt Sea Dog, she should make a tough yacht at that size in steel, my experience with Van De stadt was to build the 34' multichine steel yacht in 1985. As mentioned before I saw one of these Sea Dogs in alu in late 80s i think. There is so much that the world discards & falls from fashion that I'm sure that with care & effort you can outfit & repair this vessel at low cost to your advantage. Regards from Jeff.