US Yachts 21, anyone know this boat?

I've seen a few images of other US yacht 21s that appear to have rails on the sides of the dagger.

 

Rails on the side Eh? Not the leading or trailing edge, but the side? I'm going to follow through on making a scribe map of the dagger's profile and checking it against the sleeve...1/4 mdf. That will tell me a lot.

I don't think I'm going to replace the sleeve skids...they're fine, albeit loose. There's nothing wrong with the plastic bit.

So about half of the stainless screws that hold the skids in place are spinners...stripped and quite short...not much purchase. I know when the dagger is down, the exit underneath is far from sealed. I've had water squirt up the sleeve when conditions are just right. That's no problem though.

What does bug is the stripped screws are surely wicking moisture into the dagger sleeve at the location of each spun screw. Especially those below water line. I'm sure they're not bedded in anything special, likely just drilled into the "relish" on the back and front of the dagger sleeve (see pic to understand re-forced trailing/leading edge of dagger sleeve, covered in gray carpet.). I'm sure part of the 4" trailing spine of the sleeve is for mast compression and stiffness of cabin.

My solution (please shoot me down if going the wrong way
Spun skid screws: tap, remove. One in particular has been made a round drive...boo.
Remove black skids and see if screw holes are in fact rotted out or just spun.

Can I re-drill a deeper hole (same layout that already exists on skids) and get a slightly longer stainless screw to do the job? Get more bite? The spine is deep enough.

Another thought
Should I re-drill all holes essentially a new hole pattern on skids/sleeve? If I did this route I could plug the old sleeve holes, re-drill for new layout, use slightly larger hole and filler material, re-tap for smaller dia screw on new layout pattern.

I just really want to avoid water egress into each of the screw locations...specifically those below water line.

 

It's tough to be the first guy to take on these type of repairs. If it's been done before, I've not been able to find the info after many internet searches. If there's an owners association, I couldn't find it.

I think that going forward, many Google searches for "us21" will link directly to this thread.

I'm no expert but why not yank that carpet? Now is the perfect time to remove all the sails and cushions and other odds and ends and have a close look at the dagger board trunk structure. Every area from under those floorboards to behind the carpet.

 

Thanks Canracer.

Funny how things like this lead to either a "wing it" fix approach (which might turn out good, bad, or worse off) or fall into the hands of a professional boatsmith. I can't afford the latter, so a "wing it" approach is the only other option. I might try to get a house visit from a boat builder. There are a handful boat folks around attracted by Flathead Lake (largest natural freshwater lake this side of 'ol Miss.) I can pester my local yacht club and get referred a direction or two. If someone looks at it in person for 30 min, says "ya, this is what should happen", I can do the labor. I just don't want to tear up sh*t that didn't need fixing...(I've done it before).

Do ya think a post in the Sailing Anarchy Repair thread is worth a try?

thanks again for your advice
bigfork

 

You have the right idea about removing the bad screws and replacing with good. It's very straight forward and you don't need a professional for that.

I can't help but wonder if the tips of those screws might be sticking out through the fiberglass laminate and bedding themselves into some kind of strip (or maybe just hiding under the carpet.)

Epoxy is very easy to work with and you can keep the trunk strong and waterproof (no problem.) You can work from inside the trunk but it looks like a tight spot for hand tools. Maybe it's bigger than it looks. I'm just saying that it might be a sensible idea to draw the rub rail in tight with bolts (from outside the trunk laminate) rather than try to do everything from the inside. Just a possibility.

All that being said, I'd definitely want to see the boat's structural condition under that carpet and behind all hatches. Odds are very good that's the first thing a pro would do.

 

Centerboard designs have their strong points and weak points. After much "whaling on it" I managed to break my boat right here.


That's the area where the front of the trunk joins the hull. No problem though, it was easy epoxy work with adding some extra reinforcement (glass cloth and good plywood.)

Shopping for a bigger ride, I spent a fair amount of time researching the Merit 23 and I studied it's typical structural problems. It's a design similar to yours although heavier. I had a close inspection of a nearby boat and then took it out for a sail with the owners. I might have taken on the project if all the paperwork was in order. The trailer didn't have a title and that was sort of "the straw that broke the camels back." I decided not to purchase the boat.

Point being that I would look for the same sort of issues in the US21 as I found in the Merit23. If you were closer to Florida I would definitely be interested in buying your US21. Yes it needs some work, but it's so dam cool. I think you have the right boat. The "head scratching" phase of a project is the worst part, go ahead and jump in.

 

Here's a look at some daggers that appear to have guide rails on the sides.

 

Very interesting Canracer...

There is no evidence in the form of wear marks or recessed skid in the sleeve of my 21. I wonder if that is a thin carpet strip or something related to tightening up the fit/slop?? Not saying there shouldn't be such a thing on mine...just no wear evidence on either sleeve nor dagger.

I actually looked at those listings to get a price shot on mine. I think one of those was asking 6K! Fortunately, I only had to go 15 miles to pick mine up instead of Texas

I'm having a baby any day now so boat work is going to be in snippets, stolen away.

thanks for the comments. Next move is clean carpet off dagger from cabin, see if spun screws have a nut on the inside (don't think they do, the other screws that did come out are only 4/3" long and pointed). And tap, remove spinners.

bigfork

 

Well congrats on the Baby! All the best wishes to you and your wife.

 

I know I'm tapping back into an old thread but still seems relevant as it is now "go time". The baby boy is a year old and severely cutting into my garage time but also providing a motivation to get this thing back in the water

Update: I got the dagger out a year ago. Since, it has been residing on the garage floor. This week is goes to a pro to get doctored back up. I've had a couple of salty yachties come and put their two cents in as well. These guys sail hard and have some rebuilds under their belt. Regarding the skids fore and aft in the dagger trunk, I manage to remove a couple of the them and we have deduced that they are not the original. They seem to be some high density plastic of some sort, but show evidence of a "rip to fit" suggesting that they are perhaps not factory. There are also extra holes/countersinks that would suggest an aftermarket hand fiddling with the skid.

Somewhere in the bag log of this thread there was a guy who said he was a dealer for this line back in the day. I know the model (US Yacht 21) was a branch of the Bayliner company. I'm trying to find out what the skid material was originally made of. Perhaps I can source the proper factory material or some other equivalent??

Thanks and stay tuned as there is about to be some serious action and pictures including but not limited to a keel test fit off the side of the garage complete with a hole in the yard to allow the dagger to descend at full draw.

Thanks for all of the great advice and stay tuned! bones

 

The slide material was HDPE and the tooling marks are pretty common to see, as it's a pain in the butt to saw this stuff and leave a good edge, without additional work.

 

I've just got round to reading this entire thread, congratulations on Junior, I hope He gets some sea time soon...
I'll leave the boat repairs to those more qualified than me.

Near the beginning You mention that the boat you sailed, kept rounding up. If you look at what looks like a publicity photo for the boat, were you seated like that? If you study that photo, you can see antifouling at the bow and see the stern is low and dragging.

You should sail that boat, like most small cruisers, by sitting as far forward as possible, getting your weight as near over the keel as you can. This will tilt the mast forward (or rather, less backwards) and reduce weather helm. If you intend to race I'd definitely remove the outboard when finished with and stow it up in the bows, as I used to do racing an 18 footer.
Don't be tempted to store heavy materials in stern lockers either!!

Deciding to tilt the mast forward and sitting as per the photo will destroy your windward ability.

 

board guides

Hi, I am the "old" dealer guy, and it has been a LONG time , but from what I remember, PAR is correct.
US yachts (bayliner) was building these boats on almost an as ordered basis so they varied quite a bit over the production run, and many/most were also repaired or modified at the dealership or by their owners. I am the only one alive from that dealership that knew anything about the 21s and I really don't remember too much other than sailing them on demos. The keels were shimmed one way or another from the factory, and I also remember that we had to do some refastening on the shims, but I did not do the actual work.
For what it is worth, the factory also issued a notice that a full size battery or equal ballast was required for righting safety and the board had to be secured down while the sails were up. BE FORWARNED, it is tender . They were responsive and fun to sail, and as I recall well balanced when set up correctly. We might have changed mast rake before they were delivered, we were all part time racers and were used to checking and changing things on boats that needed it. Quality control from manufactures was pretty limited back then.
B