ultimate 20 to 26' bouy racer

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by rapscallion, Jan 16, 2012.

  1. Silver Raven
    Joined: Oct 2011
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    Location: Far North Queensland, Australia

    Silver Raven Senior Member

    Hay 'scallion' - More info please. Mono, cat or tri - or any of those??

    Sailed a few 'A' class cats oh - & a 'B' class & 'C' class cat or 2. Blown-up (ha ha - not) or scaled-down 'B' or 'C' class would make an enjoyable boat to have fun on & enjoy is what it's really all about.

    What price ceiling do you wish us to stay below.

    Can't you 2 'nit-picking' persons - keep to the subject & not bring this subject & forum into disrepute - PLEASE. I/we respect both of you - so let us respect you behavior as well - PLEASE & THANKS

    'Lordy'- I like your choice but don't know if I could afford it, for the 'just for fun' times I would sail it. Said I trying to buy a 39'x31'x1'x1750 kgs tri to go cruising. Meaning my money is very tight - oh & I'm very 'older' also.

    Bang for buck - might favour a multihull??? Ciao, james
     
  2. rapscallion
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    rapscallion Senior Member

    I was thinking mono in this case.... Lots of good points here...

    As for the comments on tactics and "true" one design... I agree. Our US sailing center has a fleet of 6 sonars that are exactly the same... even the "hours" on the sails are kept equivalent... and yes, that is "true" one design...

    Don't get me wrong, that is a great way to test one's skills.... but for the love of god people.... it's just a game... how many people would spend 40K on a bowling ball for Wednesday night league bowling?

    I like to race single handed... and I was wondering what a really good beer can racer would be like for a single hander...

    A melges 24 with a keel that was 2 feet longer with the same weight bulb? or a bulb that was 50lbs heavier?

    Handicap racing is already a "unlevel" playing field... and even the local "one design" fleets have their fast boats and slow boats... so this is about having fun, racing in a mixed fleet with a hotrod set up for single handed racing...

    DSS is really interesting... and I also have to agree with the post that discussed the need for simplicity when racing single handed.... I very much agree with everything in that post... But if DSS can save on ballast it might be the way to go in a light air venue.. the avg wind speed on lake Michigan over the racing season is 8mph. So any monohull has to be a light air rocket...

    Maybe an I55o with a Melges 24 rig would be fun..

    The quant 28 looks awesome!
     
  3. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    I once saw a star that was detuned with a shorter rig and foresail for single handing. That always appealed to me. Old Stars can be had for not too much and the result would be a great boat. Since my current favorite rig is a sprit boomed cat ketch with unstayed masts, I'd think that rig on a Star hull would not tax even a really old salt like me. The slightly more agile among us could rig a drifter or flat spinnaker roller reefed on a short bowsprit.
     
  4. messabout
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    messabout Senior Member

    I reckon a boat that is fearsome fast, single handed, moderately priced, does not need abs of steel for hiking, Easy to launch and retrieve, would be an International 10 meter canoe. Not the new maniac type, the older model so that one does not have to be acrobatic.
     
  5. rapscallion
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    rapscallion Senior Member

    Funny you would mention that. Meade Gougeon agrees with you. He talked quite a bit about his canoes when I went down to the shop to meet him. His new canoe is a work of art
     
  6. Stumble
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    Stumble Senior Member

    I was thinking a Moth. Fast, fun, and not that difficult to sail. Plus it has a strong OD class so there is plenty of competition.
     
  7. rapscallion
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    rapscallion Senior Member

    A moth would be a lot of fun! The only issue there is no one around here races them... but we do have a phrf fleet... that seems to get faster every year..

    I like the star idea...and here is an idea along a similar vain.

    Obviously cost is always an issue, so any way to keep costs down is good. So I was thinking that out of all of the US "sportboats" the melges 24 is the most common... and it is relatively easy to find good sails on the used market... one can also find used rigs on the market as well. A used melges 24 mast can be had for a favorable price.

    Put that rig on a 1/4" ply and uni carbon chined hull that is similar to a Js9000. Top it off with a very deep keel and bulb and I think you might have a single handed bouy rocket. I think the JS9000 had a phrf of 75, which is faster than a cheetah 30.. not bad.. and a boat like that would lend itself to DSS, if I could ever figure it out....
     
  8. Stumble
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    Stumble Senior Member

    Instead of a Melgus 24 take a look at the Viper 640, half the price, better quality, and the same speed (within 3 sec a mile). If you want to go a little cheaper you could pick up one of Brian Bennete's new VX OD's, I haven't sailed one yet, but for 25k for a new boat they are a steal, and he has sold something like 30 of them in the last 6 months.

    Figure a viper at 35k, a VX at 24, or a 24 at 60...
     
  9. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    None of these boats are suitable for singlehanded buoy racing.

    FYI: The Viper 640 does not sail within 3 seconds per mile of a Melges 24 when both boats are sailed well. It may have that rating in some PHRF area, but it is not that fast. Here in SoCal it is more than 20 sec/mile difference (probably more than the national average).
     
  10. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    A 7.5 metre version of this 5.5 m skimmer would fit the bill. Not expensive, very fast downhill in a breeze and better to windward than you would think - with those wing masts.
     

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  11. Stumble
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    Stumble Senior Member

    Paul,

    I don't disagree that none of the boats are particularly suitable for one handed sailing, but the OP was already considering the 24, and the others are at least as suitable. As for PHRF ratings, the national average for the Viper 640 is 105, vs 99 for the 24, so ya I was off by 3 seconds. SoCal is just weird... Though the high for the 24 is actually 136

    Personally for single handed sailing I would be looking at a laser, or fin. But neither are near 20'. And I don't think most of the other boat mentioned are one handed...

    Star - 2
    Melges 24 - 3-4
    Viper - 3-4
    VX OD - 2-3
    Us 9000 are pigs and take 2-3
    International canoe 1
     
  12. gggGuest
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    gggGuest ...

    But if those are your key parameters, why on earth would you want an 8 metre boat when a 4 metre one will cost a fraction of the bigger one both to buy and run, and do everything else you list at least as well?

    I submit that the two things that are least use on a buoy racing boat, in terms of performance lost and expense gained, are lead and lids...

    Messabout, from everything I can gather, racing Canoes have been acrobatic for about the last 120 years...
     
  13. Silver Raven
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    Silver Raven Senior Member

    G'morn Gary. Guess at the cost, Please?? With those wing masts - it would be very stable going to windward when well tuned. Sure looks smart but don't think they'll buy it - over there, to much into their own-thing to look at the rest of the world. Shame that! Also - any idea of the all-up weight - just at a punt. Ciao, james PS - I like dem-wing-things - look fab & I know a good wing is really the go!! jj
     
  14. messabout
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    messabout Senior Member

    ggg: I swear to Neptune that the IC is far easier to sail than a conventional boat that needs the skipper to hike. Easier and less demanding than a trapeze rig too. Trapeze is fun but the hiking plank is much easier to use. The IC is a decked boat, if the boat is dumped it takes on no water and is easy to right and sail on in a matter of seconds. Not many 17 foot boats are as easy to use despite the generally held impression that they are demanding.

    One of the notable U.S. IC sailors was a gentleman named Lou Whitman. He was well into his seventies and impossible to catch with anything short of a Tornado. Lou was fit but never acrobatic. In fact he counseled us to move smoothly, never jumpy, never excitedly.
     

  15. eyschulman
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    eyschulman Senior Member

    How about a boat that is fun to sail any time race or not. Fast flat sailing. Easy single handing. trailerable. Can hit 20K with single sailor no sweat. Can be weekended. Shoal draft for anchoring or a ramp. good resale value. They call it a folding tri and there are used boats availabe.
     
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