TP52s

[mighetto]

SA is positive on the TP52 in general. Stop making out where SA is against them.

Sigh, www.sailinganrchy.com headliner yesterday:

That '70's Show
As you know, the '70 sleds originated as a West Coast phenomenon, later partially morphed into turbo sleds, and then died, only to be resurrected in the Great Lakes as a very vibrant fleet. Much to the chagrin of many Le[ft Coasters, btw. Might the tide turn once again? We hear that the SC 70 Holua is on its way back to Newport Beach and that at least one other former sled owner is looking to play again.

You bastards may have also taken our TP 52 idea as well, but damnit, we're bringing back these 20 year-old '70 IOR sleds, and we'll show you!

11/04/05

From what I've observed, you and Scot Tempesta are fundamentally different - he is a rabble-rouser, you are an ignorant jerk. And based on the quote in Shife's signature line, he doesn't think highly of you.

If Scot has anything to be angry about it is that many think he and I are the same person. I outed him earlier this year to demonstate that that wasn't the case. His role at SA had been obscured since Tripp Gal started the FOYD thread and I was invited to defend the Mac26x ride. It is a great thing that he now names himself freely. Tripp Gal must have returned his testicle. Why does he tollerate her?

Your link to Latitude 38 is no good by the way which is too bad because I was looking forward to reading why they think your boat is a piece of crap.

Damn, has Latitude 38 been hacked? They were telling Mac26 classic stories at the Performance Sailing seminar last Tuesday night while I was waiting at the train station. (Many if not most of the great racing sailors in the US have started with Macgregors.)Trains are inexpensive transportation for a reason. Not very reliable. The story from Latitude 38 involved the Ladie Kattie II. Ladie used a 40 hp motor to get on plane under sail (I suspect) and won cruising class. Lattitude had a bad attitude about that and implied she motored the entire race at WOT, sails down, which could not have been true given the limited amount of fuel that can be carried on these vessels. These are true sailboats with dribbly hulls similar to Tasars only larger that have motors like you should expect for heavy weather ocean use. It is not correct to call them motor sailers because the range is so limited (100 miles or so). The modern cruisers being lauched today usually have at least 75 hp motors. I remember thinking the TP52s underpowered because of this.

In anycase, if you upscale a Mac26x to full cruiser size you come up with about that size power plant (75 hp). The laws of physics appear to apply. Macgregor Yachts put something like 130 hp auxiliaries on its 65 foot ULDBs. My point is that Lattitude 38 did some damage to the Future of Yacht Design by educating its readers to reject out of had the most importaint piece of safety gear on a modern sail boat. That being the auxiliary engine. Today even multihullers are reluctant to put proper sized outboards on their craft even though modern boat building know how produces hulls stiff enough and strong enough to support them with out any problems. On a windless day when a crew member needs medical attention you need to get them to the medics ashore. Perry pointed that out when he mentioned the Mac26x in one of his reviews. Apparently one of his clients has attributed his life to have being saved because he was on a Mac26x when he suffered a heart attach and the boat could motor him fast to waiting medics.

The promised wind for the Squaxin race today has evaportated. 10 MPH and rainy. Getting back to the Hag's writing.

Why should Lattitude 48 polute its pages with a story of the Seattle Big Boat event? There were only 17 vessels and the course selected was the mildest possible for the wind that day which was steady and quite unchallenging. I know, we sailed the same wind while sucking wine and cheezes - no steaming pile of crap. When you come to realize that these big boats carry their own spectators, you have to wonder who else besides those sitting on them has interest? Best I can tell most of those sitting on them would have prefered to sit on the chase power boats.

The Volvo 70s. Well now, you would hardly call crew spectators (rail meat) on these. Of course the spectators have been replaced by movable ballast.

Interesting how studying the Golf course weather reports (which are oriented to tee time) might be useful in sailboat race strategy. Sure are a lot of golf courses in South Puget Sound.

Team Kiss Me Arse

BTW - the west coast slead owner refered to on the SA headliner is likely Roger MacGregor's own daughter who races SC70s. Keep those TP52s in the Med. Let the Med be the dumping ground for this design failure.

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by usa2

"posting what you believe is true" is also called posting your "opinion"

Knowingly stating falsehood is not opinion. It can be called debate. But only when there is a formal competition. This is not a debate forum. We should think a bit about what an assumption is. 5000 hulls. Thats fact. Is it so outside the realm of your belief structure to not allow an assumption. Assume the MacX boat represents the Future of Yacht design. Then test that theory. Look at all the similar features now showing on the modern racing sailboats. Volvo 70s race - today! We have our scuttlebut listserve now humming. If you want assume the TP52 represents the Future of Yacht Design. SO NOT. SO IMS. Lets move on.

[sailsmall]

Originally Posted by mighetto

(Many if not most of the great racing sailors in the US have started with Macgregors.)

HA! Name a few. Hell, name one.

Originally Posted by mighetto

SA is positive on the TP52 in general. Stop making out where SA is against them.

Sigh, www.sailinganrchy.com headliner yesterday:

That '70's Show
As you know, the '70 sleds originated as a West Coast phenomenon, later partially morphed into turbo sleds, and then died, only to be resurrected in the Great Lakes as a very vibrant fleet. Much to the chagrin of many Le[ft Coasters, btw. Might the tide turn once again? We hear that the SC 70 Holua is on its way back to Newport Beach and that at least one other former sled owner is looking to play again.

You bastards may have also taken our TP 52 idea as well, but damnit, we're bringing back these 20 year-old '70 IOR sleds, and we'll show you!

11/04/05

Once again you demonstrate your inability to understand the English language as it is spoken today. The phrase "our TP52 idea" in the context of the sentence is a statement of pride that they originated on the West Coast.

Originally Posted by mighetto

From what I've observed, you and Scot Tempesta are fundamentally different - he is a rabble-rouser, you are an ignorant jerk. And based on the quote in Shife's signature line, he doesn't think highly of you.

If Scot has anything to be angry about it is that many think he and I are the same person.

Anyone would be pissed off about that, but that's not what I meant.

Originally Posted by mighetto

The story from Latitude 38 involved the Ladie Kattie II. Ladie used a 40 hp motor to get on plane under sail (I suspect) and won cruising class. Lattitude had a bad attitude about that and implied she motored the entire race at WOT, sails down, which could not have been true given the limited amount of fuel that can be carried on these vessels. These are true sailboats with dribbly hulls similar to Tasars only larger that have motors like you should expect for heavy weather ocean use. It is not correct to call them motor sailers because the range is so limited (100 miles or so). The modern cruisers being lauched today usually have at least 75 hp motors. I remember thinking the TP52s underpowered because of this.

You contradict yourself. A range of 100 miles is not nearly enough to rely on for safety in blue water (ie, far from land; this is another term you don't understand properly). You would need much more range to get out of the path of a hurricane, to use one of your favorite examples.

[mackid068]

Originally Posted by mighetto

5000 hulls. Thats fact. Is it so outside the realm of your belief structure to not allow an assumption. Assume the MacX boat represents the Future of Yacht design. Then test that theory.

Volvo 70:

AFT TRIM BALLAST TANK, not a fully water ballasted boat! It has a canting keel with a 9900 pound bulb...I recall you saying that centerboards+water ballast are better....

Port and starboard daggerboards for extra sideslipping prevention.

If you're talking about the FOYD, then the Open 60 and the Volvo 70 (and, hell, let's throw in the TP52) are it.

And regarding the Mac26...what's the point of having to add water for stability when it would be more stable 100% by having a keel (or at least some sort of permanent ballast!)?



That is one example of the FOYD.

Not this...

[Skippy]

Why does skandia have a bowsprit if the outer headsail isn't mounted on the end of it?

[mackid068]

Could the bowsprit be solely for the spinnaker? All I know is that that boat is cutting edge...the FOYD...with a canting keel and REAL ballast.

[jam007]

Spinnaker, gennacker or screecher depending on AWA and wind speed

Anders M

[usa2]

I dont believe the Tp 52 is the "future" of yacht design, as its not really a development class. The future of yacht design comes from Open classes such as the VO70, 30m supermaxis, and Open 60s. Tp52's are the future of level racing classes.
The reason many people are hesitant to get into an "arms race" with a development class is because your boat could be completely obselete within a year or so. Take Skandia versus Maximus for instance. Max burned her in nearly all the races, despite being only 2 feet longer. Both boats are fully powered up in 10 knots of wind. Maximus however has more efficient sails, spars, and underbody appendages. The 2 years between the boats was the time needed to figure out whether a lifting AND canting keel was possibly, along with a wingmast and squarehead mainsail onboard a 100' supermaxi. Bowsprits in the traditional sense are not making a comeback. How many boats in the late 1800's and early 1900's did you see flying spinnakers off a bowsprit? The sprits, or "prodders" of the supermaxi class and the Open 30,40,50,60, and 70 classes are entirely different than the classic bowsprit.
Water ballast on the Open 70's is to adjust trim, not keep the boat on her feet. Thats why there is a canting keel. Water ballast is not as effective as a canting keel, and only could be if above deck ballast was permitted. However if that happened, people would move their lead above deck also.

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by migholetto

the aft sail

That would be a MIZZEN, migho. At least learn the language if you are planning on being a sailing poseur.
Sheesh!

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by skippy

Why does skandia have a bowsprit if the outer headsail isn't mounted on the end of it?

Because calss rules do not allow it. No fixed stays outside the boat's rule length.

[mackid068]

Originally Posted by usa2

I dont believe the Tp 52 is the "future" of yacht design, as its not really a development class. The future of yacht design comes from Open classes such as the VO70, 30m supermaxis, and Open 60s. Tp52's are the future of level racing classes.
The reason many people are hesitant to get into an "arms race" with a development class is because your boat could be completely obselete within a year or so. Take Skandia versus Maximus for instance. Max burned her in nearly all the races, despite being only 2 feet longer. Both boats are fully powered up in 10 knots of wind. Maximus however has more efficient sails, spars, and underbody appendages. The 2 years between the boats was the time needed to figure out whether a lifting AND canting keel was possibly, along with a wingmast and squarehead mainsail onboard a 100' supermaxi. Bowsprits in the traditional sense are not making a comeback. How many boats in the late 1800's and early 1900's did you see flying spinnakers off a bowsprit? The sprits, or "prodders" of the supermaxi class and the Open 30,40,50,60, and 70 classes are entirely different than the classic bowsprit.
Water ballast on the Open 70's is to adjust trim, not keep the boat on her feet. Thats why there is a canting keel. Water ballast is not as effective as a canting keel, and only could be if above deck ballast was permitted. However if that happened, people would move their lead above deck also.

Ok, even if the TP52 is not the FOYD, but the FOLR, fine. It's still better than the MacGregor 26...and 65...as a FACT, just as the open 60 and Volvo 70 are better than the MG26 and 65...of course. And that's no joke.

[Shife]

Originally Posted by mighetto

If Scot has anything to be angry about it is that many think he and I are the same person. I outed him earlier this year to demonstate that that wasn't the case. His role at SA had been obscured since Tripp Gal started the FOYD thread and I was invited to defend the Mac26x ride. It is a great thing that he now names himself freely. Tripp Gal must have returned his testicle. Why does he tollerate her?

No one on earth believes that you and Tempesta are the same person. You must have been dropped on your head as a child to think that you "outed" Scot. As soon as SA was born people knew who's site it was. Unlike you, the Ed is actually an accomplished sailor. Please explain how Tripp Gal has anything to do with the Ed's role at SA. He OWNS the fricking site Frank. No one tells him what to do. Why all this hate directed at Tripp Gal anyway? We all know you're jealous of:

1 Her sailing abilities (You don't have enough sailing experience to even operate the beer cooler on that boat)

2 Her boat (larger, faster, better built, better looking, and far more successful)

3 Her knowledge of rating rules, navigation, and the RRS's (Your lack of knowledge on these subjects makes you a danger to yourself and everyone on the water with you)

And now you're jealous of her ability to post on SA? She causes no problems at SA. Unlike you who causes problems for every forum you stumble into (until you get banned anyway.) If I were her husband, I'd track your fat ass down and club you over the head with a boat hook for all the unwarranted personal attacks you made against her. You are a liar and a slimeball Frank. You make seedy used car salesmen seem like good people.

[sailsmall]

Originally Posted by Shife

No one on earth believes that you and Tempesta are the same person. You must have been dropped on your head as a child to think that you "outed" Scot.

That's what I was going to say too, maybe not quite as poetically, but then I remembered that, at one point when the FOYD thread was going hot and heavy, there was some speculation that the Ed was in fact putting everyone on by pretending to be this bizarre creature named Mighetto. I'm pretty sure that's what Frank is refering to, and, of course, once again he doesn't understand the simplest of concepts. Ironically, there was also speculation that it was Tripp Gal, among a few other people.

[TP 52 Defender]

Just some real news about TP52's - In the IRC Midatlantics TP52's went 1 & 3 (2 was an IMS Farr 53). As to Franks claim about a rule change in IRC don't believe him - as he has proven that his knowledge of all things sailing is limited (very limited) and often dangerous.

[sailsmall]

Originally Posted by usa2

Water ballast on the Open 70's is to adjust trim, not keep the boat on her feet. Thats why there is a canting keel. Water ballast is not as effective as a canting keel, and only could be if above deck ballast was permitted. However if that happened, people would move their lead above deck also.

Above deck? Can you expand on that a little?