TP52s

[mackid068]

Hmm...I'm gonna guess that it's about .0000000000000001 (upwind), cause the Mac26 is a POWERBOAT...with a mast and ****ty sail rig. .000(etc.)1 until he turns on his weird 50 hp motor on a 26 foot boat? Not much of a sailboat, that's for SURE!

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by 101

Frank, if this is true, it would look like this thread has run its course since it is the TP 52 thread. I suspose if Runte For Mayor is taking your attention and you want to talk that political stuff with sailors, you could go to the SA thread designed for that purpose. I bet you even know the web site! If not, then get back on topic and tell me again how bad those 52's are!

How come you are not at the new member social? I have my Runte excuse. Got to give Commodore Decker respect for sending me a reminder. My wife thinks it was an oversite but Decker is the man in my book. We will be at Longbranch. New Susuki and UK Sail. But you can catch us with tuning partner on Lake Washington for the next two weeks. You have asked to be fed. To the hungry I give the truth of Seattle's Progressive Internet. The following demonstrates the failure of the TP52 line to better those of the Costa Mesa Clan. Enjoy, digest, debate as I register those who will be out of town on November 8th for mail-in ballots. Runte's platform, as my platform at SSSS, lives regardless of our status as Mayor or Secretary. Huzzah. Huzzah. Now for the TP52 train wreck watchers.

In 1973 there were 46 boatbuilders in Costa Mesa California and 24,000 boats were produced. A year later that number shrank to 22. Today there are less than a handfull. Nonetheless Costa Mesa California remains a Meca for boat owners, a sacrid historical place to any who ever owned or dreamed of owning an ocean going sailboat.

Westsail, Islander, Flicka, Crealock, Dana, Columbia & Lancer, Cal 20 and Cal 40 and Erickson all have historical ties to the city. And if you consider colaborative efforts, the list is even larger.

Costa Mesa is in Orange County and there were close to 100 boat builders in Orange County in the mid 1970s. Hence those who have or had interest in Santana, Schocks, I-14s, Sabots and Thistles, Penguins, el Toros and Lidos, which were all produced in the county, should be interested in Costa Mesa.

Designs from Bill Lee, George Cuthbertson & George Cassian, Bruce Farr, C. William Lapworth, and Shad Turner were built in the Costa Mesa community.

Today, builders such as Dick Valdes and Maury Threien, who founded Columbia Yachts, have long gone and the Meca today is threatened by redevelopment. Only Jenson Marine and MacGregor Yachts remain.

Yet there is hardly a serious sailor that doesn't know about Alamitos Bay - thirty miles from Meca, where some of the 1,960 Cal 20s are raced. Or about surf city, Marina Del Ray, where Coast Mesa clan boats are prevailent and ready to take their owners to Catalina Island and beyond.

Most sailors are aware of the Costa Mesa built Cal 40s that just completed the 100 year aniversity Transpac, a race to Hawaii that has been run regularly since 1906.

The Cal sailboats are among my favorites and several hundred ply the waters Murrelet cruises most frequently (the Waters of British Columbia and Puget Sound). It has been 25 years or more since the last one was produced.

I blame the east-is-the-least-coast for sailors for the failure to produce more. The vessels were originally called Lapworth, later California, then shortened to Cal.

Most were produced in Costa Mesa at Jenson Marine, but some fine Cal vessels were also produced in Canada after Punta Marine purchased the sailboat line, moved production to Florida, and then to Massachusetts, milking the fine name of the vessels into bankruptcy. These vessels angered more than a few on the race courses.

A company in Rhode Island (Compton Yachts) revived the line in the 1990s but I speculate that there was more interest in convincing the boat buying public that the line was inferior than in making it successful.

Al Naime, currently of Ferndale in Washington State, produced the vessels from 1962 until 1979 in Vancouver at Calgan Marine and there is hardly a marina in Washington state or BC Canada that doesn't have one of the Calgan or Jensen built vessels moored there. I believe that the ocean spirit of the Cals lives in the vessels still produced on the West coast, in particular those at the Costa Mesa Macgregor plant.

Few know that Genuine Risk (a canting keel maxi), Pyewacket (a waterbalasted maxi), Beau Gest (a TP52) and Magnitude 80, three of arguably the fastest monohulls on the water, are unable to break the record of the Costa Mesa built Joss, a 65 footer. Costa Mesa has claim to one of the oldest unbroken records in ocean racing, the Marina del Rey to Puerto Vallarta race which is run alternate years from the TransPac. May city officials develop that claim or at least preserve the history of it and the importance of this city for boat building somewhere within the shopping centers now planned. Joss is a Mac65, exactly the size of the proposed box rule developed from the failed TP52 line by Tripp, of Sea Hag (Sudie Parker AKA Tripp Gal) infamy.

Ps watch the Stranger's BB. I will be there.

HWNSNBS

[sailsmall]

Originally Posted by TP 52 Defender

In 5 KTS TWS - TP 52 Target is 4.28 and DW VS (MHG) is 5.80 +

Wonder what the Mac 26 TVS is in 5 TWS ?????

For Frank:
TWS = True Wind Speed ( In Knots)
Target = Projected boat speed of wind speed and angle
DW = Down Wind
TVS = Target boat speed
VS = Boat Speed
MHG = Mast Head Genoa

I'm guessing that with the fancy new Suzuki 70 sizzling on the transom, Frank's TVS in less than 5kts breeze is somewhere above 20mph. Those wimpy TP52s will look pretty silly bobbing along with just their sails to move them forward.

[mackid068]

Yeah, pretty darn silly to have a sailboat that actually sails.

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by sailsmall

I'm guessing that with the fancy new Suzuki 70 sizzling on the transom, Frank's TVS in less than 5kts breeze is somewhere above 20mph. Those wimpy TP52s will look pretty silly bobbing along with just their sails to move them forward.

The TP52s will not even start a race with less than 7 knots wind. They then give up with wind over 20 knots. You make excellent points

There was an intervention on my 70 hp. I went smaller (the 50 hp Susuki) after being told I was drunk with power The entire work was done in a couple of days. Such is the briliance of outboard designs. The motor is very quiet, a four stroke that purrs/\.

This is a good time to get you thinking of the notion of the Mac26x being the Corvete of sailboats, a muscle boat that is meant for cruising but can also race. The TP52s? Well you hit it correctly. These are the dubya's of the boating world The design is for wimps who have been fooled into thinking that capsize should be avoided at all costs and only take the bouy courses when conditions perfectly match their narrow range of favorable operation. To cover the nature of the dubya boats, the designers of these foolish vessels war with little 26 footers and movable water ballast.

[dumbass]

Originally Posted by mighetto, the Village Idiot

This is a good time to get you thinking of the notion of the Mac26x being the Corvete of sailboats, a muscle boat that is meant for cruising but can also race.

The Mac26x is the Yugo of sailboats. It doesn't do anything particularly well, and it is only *good enough* if you set your expectations sufficiently low. And it probably shouldn't be sailed in winds over 20 knots.

So, when are you going to admit that you were banned from SA?

[TP 52 Defender]

“The TP52s will not even start a race with less than 7 knots wind. They then give up with wind over 20 knots. You make excellent points”

More lies from Frank:
In several venues the fleet has started races in 5 KTS TWS and have raced in winds well in excess of 20 KTS TWS (Personal best was 30 + TWS at 29 KTS VS under a 3A)

Can a Mac 26 even move in under 5 Kts? Can you still sail at over 20 KTS with any full canvass? (Curious)

A Mac 26 is not a racing sailboat Frank it is a motor boat that can sail – which you chose to attempt race. A TP 52 is designed to race.

TP 52’s currently hold several distance race records (How many do Mac 26’s?).

One more time for the liar – you do not have movable water
Ballast. You can only shift ballast on and off, movable ballast
REQUIRES that you be able to move it from port to stbd and
Keep it on the required side to add to Trim and Righting Moment
(let me know if you need these terms defined).

Time to apologies for you lies again Frank – you have never set foot
On a TP 52 (other than dockside – if you sneaked on after the crew left)
Let alone sailed on one. Why do you continue to lie when the truth is continually put in front of you for your review.

Care to answer any of the other questions I have posed?

Consider this also an invitation to bring your pocket cruiser to KWRW 2006 and she how she goes (we may be able to arrange for a small race for you against a TP52 during the feeder race). Time to put up or shut up, or in your case apologies ....

[SailDesign]

Defender - don't be so quick to put "Platoon" down as a US boat....

Steve

[TP 52 Defender]

I know SD - thought the unknowns would be here thru Miami so put them in with the US crews (Platoon is GER - thus will go under EU). Sad to see the Med fleet change their minds about comming over .... Who has the new Illbrook order?

[sailsmall]

Originally Posted by mighetto

This is a good time to get you thinking of the notion of the Mac26x being the Corvete of sailboats, a muscle boat that is meant for cruising but can also race. The TP52s? Well you hit it correctly. These are the dubya's of the boating world The design is for wimps who have been fooled into thinking that capsize should be avoided at all costs and only take the bouy courses when conditions perfectly match their narrow range of favorable operation. To cover the nature of the dubya boats, the designers of these foolish vessels war with little 26 footers and movable water ballast.

Delusions of grandeur Frankie. The lowly Mac26x has had no impact whatsoever on the TP52. You are an idiot. And you were BANNED from SA - admit it.

[sailsmall]

Originally Posted by mighetto

The TP52s will not even start a race with less than 7 knots wind. They then give up with wind over 20 knots. You make excellent points.

It's call sarcasm, ****-for-brains (SFB). And you continue to make stupid points.

Frank Mighetto - banned from more sites than most people have posted on.

[fatdog]

[quote=mighetto]Originally Posted by mighetto
The TP52s will not even start a race with less than 7 knots wind. They then give up with wind over 20 knots.QUOTE]

TP52 7 Knots.......... No Racing....

Mighetto 7 Knots............... Double Reef Main Only barging the fleet at the start

[Jim Hauser]

Vessels large may venture more,
But little boats should keep near shore.

Wow Migghie, even the venerable Benjamin Franklin foresaw your boat as being a shoreside wonder.

[barleymalt]

Frank

I think you have the Corvette confused with the Chevette, which is not much to look at, cheap, slow and ungainly. Like your boat.

[mackid068]

His boat IS a shoreside wonder...but not a*wonder* in a positive way...it's to be gawked at.