TP52s

[jam007]

Did not most racing enthusiests think the TP52s hot when they clearly are not. Did not most racing enthusiests think the Mac26x boats steaming piles of crap prior to learning that they are the most popular sail boat design of all time. 5000 hulls in 7 years. There will never be that kind of production in a pocket cruiser/ racer again. That design represents truth. True grass roots support.

LOL

This was an even better joke than your views on keels!!

[mighetto]

SailSmall

If Frank speaks with the authority of SSSS, then we can apparently assume that knowledge of the relevant facts is not expected.

Sarbanes-Oxley is fact. The relevancy of that act changed the Board at SSSS just has it has every Board in every US corporation. Sarbanes-Oxley was passed to restore confidence in the publicly traded companies. Since passage of the Act, however, there has come recognition that private entities, including not-for-profit sailing clubs, deal with many of the same issues that plagued publicly traded companies. The Sarbanes-Oxley Act is the single most important piece of legislation affecting corporate governance and it was the reason for US Sailing to reorganize. What is on paper – the bylaws of our club corporations is relevant. It is those same bylaws that the big boat supporters seek to bypass and believe themselves to be correct in doing so because of the belief structure passed to them by their fathers.

The specific issue at SSSS that was addressed last year was the Board Membership of two SSSS Members. These Members also held memberships at OSF and OSF in its need to solicit contributions from folks like Sudie Parker was influenced to do wrong at The Society.

I know what I am doing at SSSS. Do you?

[barleymalt]

"What are we to conclude. Is it possible that crew competency is more important than design compentency. Can I say that astroturfing (the creation of what looks like grass roots enthusiam for a design) has a long history in sailboat design. Did not most racing enthusiests think the TP52s hot when they clearly are not. Did not most racing enthusiests think the Mac26x boats steaming piles of crap prior to learning that they are the most popular sail boat design of all time. 5000 hulls in 7 years. There will never be that kind of production in a pocket cruiser/ racer again. That design represents truth. True grass roots support."

Wrong again Frank. The Catalina 27/270 has been built for 31 years, and has many more hulls than the Mac26X. The Mac26X is a marginal niche boat that works for some people. Compared to contemporary sailboats and especially racing sailboats, it is a steaming pile of crap. I saw one up close on a trailer a couple weeks ago and could not stop laughing for several minutes. Sorry, but the TP52 class is cutting edge design, that is unless you are looking to pull a waterskier. And for the record, I tuned you out as a lunatic unworthy of further attention a long, long time ago. You are persistant, but deluded.

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by barleymalt

"What are we to conclude. Is it possible that crew competency is more important than design compentency. Can I say that astroturfing (the creation of what looks like grass roots enthusiam for a design) has a long history in sailboat design. Did not most racing enthusiests think the TP52s hot when they clearly are not. Did not most racing enthusiests think the Mac26x boats steaming piles of crap prior to learning that they are the most popular sail boat design of all time. 5000 hulls in 7 years. There will never be that kind of production in a pocket cruiser/ racer again. That design represents truth. True grass roots support."

Wrong again Frank. The Catalina 27/270 has been built for 31 years, and has many more hulls than the Mac26X. The Mac26X is a marginal niche boat that works for some people. Compared to contemporary sailboats and especially racing sailboats, it is a steaming pile of crap. I saw one up close on a trailer a couple weeks ago and could not stop laughing for several minutes. Sorry, but the TP52 class is cutting edge design, that is unless you are looking to pull a waterskier. And for the record, I tuned you out as a lunatic unworthy of further attention a long, long time ago. You are persistant, but deluded.

I am of course well aware of the Catalina line. My sister owns a 42. It took Catalina more than twice the time to get 5000 hull as it did for Macgregor to do 5000 with the Mac26x. The halt of production of the model owing to Jim Teeters and the big boat fear of movable balast is a tradgedy. There is still huge demand for the X as there is demand for the Catalina 27. But lets not devide our efforts. Catalina's were Costa Mesa Builds at one time. Isn't that correct?

And now the latest from Sudie Parker.

I automatically default to Shilshole being a "no-way" especially in light of their fiasco of a remodel, awful customer service, and personalities of bent **** can lids from a significant # of the staff. Don't like them, don't have to give them money, so I don't.

Elliott bay is a great place, we stay there often. Efficient and friendly staff, clean facilities, and great docks are high on the list of qualities about EB They are also huge supporters of the sailing community. I have nothing bad to say about Elliott Bay, with the exception that Shilshole and EB have high rates due to demand and location while other places not in metro Seattle have their merits as well.

All I was pointing out was that people who don't live in Seattle have other options depending on their interests. Bremerton, Port Orchard, Poulsbo, Eagle Harbor, etc are all places with moorage available at about half the price. Commencement Bay has open spaces as well. Since Orizaba is doing the semi-permanant thing for a few months they have the option of looking at a number of locations that are equidistant, closer, or easier to drive to than Seattle. They can even do a month in Seattle (october/november) another month in Tacoma (december) a month in Des Moines (Jan) etc. while they play through the season.

She is a trouble maker and will be for all who deal with her IMO. What is with the nudity on SA? Are things slow because I do not post there so to liven things up Dr Laura nudes are needed?

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by barleymalt

Sorry, but the TP52 class is cutting edge design, that is unless you are looking to pull a waterskier.

Ackshirley, barley, the TP52 is more likely to be able to pull a waterskier, since it can get up to 20+ knots under sail. That is a speed that the Mac26 is hard pressed to reach even with 50hp and empty balast tanks.

[mackid068]

Unfortunately: It is easier to drive a boat under power than to sail it (especially at 20 kts., though at least sailboats have "brakes..." letting the sail luff and pointing into irons)

[mighetto]

Ackshirley, barley, the TP52 is more likely to be able to pull a waterskier, since it can get up to 20+ knots under sail. That is a speed that the Mac26 is hard pressed to reach even with 50hp and empty balast tanks.

Perhaps I need to explain why Tripp Gal is picking on Shilshole. This is the alternate home of Murrelet, the Mighty Mighetto Max26x that has embarassed her and her juvinial crew multiple times on and off the race course over the past 15 months. Modern marinas of all kind also make her vessel and all the big racing sailboats look foolish. They are foolishly designed and that makes them difficult to accomodate at the marinas, the Ballard locks, on the hard, on the race courses, at the charity events and in the minds and hearts of those who sail. They are a burdon at every club their owners choose to glob onto becoming true wards of the club and sucking the life out of them. This is especially true when the owners gain influence through PHRF rating duties as Sudie Parker has. These owners and their boats are feered not respected. Defend yourself and the big boats here oh Sea Hag. Or live in shame as you apparently choose to do by posting elsewhere. Our never ending battle is to be fought here.

The Shilshole shuffel is the term applied at the Shilshole Marina to describe frequent but often temporary changes in slip assignments owing to the difficulty of managing sub leases. If I were running things sub leases would not be allowed at the marina but in anycase I so enjoy watching large underpowered cabin cruisers and sailboats like Tripp Gals and TP52s pull up for fuel and depart when the wind is blowing, that my shuffel was made permanent.

The desirability of a real engine, rather than a sailboat kicker on a sail boat with freeboard worthy of ocean racing at Swiftsure was obvious from Murrelet's 2003 summer-post-shuffel perch. Owing to what happens in windy conditions it makes sense to put in bow thrusters. OH MY GOD did Frank just say Tripp Gal needs to put in a bow thruster. YES He Whoes Name Should Not be Mentioned did. And yet he is not the first. The great MIT designer, Ted Irwin - Oh the Horror - did exactly that with his sailing vessels on display at Lake Union today. We enter the age of enlightenment. The greatest advancements in monohull sailboat design of all time are now evident.

The ULDB Mac65 was fitted with a 140 hp motor. Roger MacGregor just doesn't put up with nonesense. The larger power motor makes the ultra light design safer.

On the 20 hp motor speed. I have optained that speed after haul out and engine work. But you are correct, it is unusual for the 50 hp Nisson to get that speed without a current or wind assistance. Hence boats like mine are being fitted with 70 and 90 hp motors, some of those being actually lighter than the originals. Of course we are getting new sails as well.

Sudie is so reckless. Does she not know that it is Shilshole donating the crains for OSF. What a hartless hag. (no smiley).

[jam007]

"The ULDB Mac65 was fitted with a 140 hp motor. Roger MacGregor just doesn't put up with nonesense. The larger power motor makes the ultra light design safer."

Yes, by their weight!! If you have a large enough engine you won´t need a that terrible bulb on your keel

"Of course we are getting new sails as well."

Why ??? You have clearly shown that you don´t think sailing or sailing ability is in any way related to using/owning a sailboat.

[mackid068]

Jam007: Thank heavens someone else noticed! Yay. By the way, anyone else think that the Mac65 isn't that safe or "good" (overall) of a boat?

[TP 52 Defender]

Never had a problem docking the 52 for fuel (or any other reason) - how is this underpowered?

[dougfrolich]

I'll second 'Defender. On a delivery from San Diego to San Francisco on an Andrews designed TP52, we averaged 10kt. over ground for the trip. The wind was light and variable, My feeling was that the boat hauled ass under power. It is such an easily driven boat it just does not take much power to go... Adding more weight for more hp would be a mistake on these boats.

ps this thread really sucks I wish that horses ass (M) would just go away.

[Mark 42]

Originally Posted by mighetto

Maine USA2

Is that why all nearly all the 12 meters were designed and built on the East coast?

Interesting notion. The truth is that the 12 meter vessels were popular in England and Europe prior to the rekindling of the Americas Cup which had not been run for some time owing to World Wars. This is an excellent example of design by courts of law and the mentality that has existed on the east is least for sailors coast for some time.

Then the use of multihulls in Amerca's Cup was "Design by Courts".
Does that mean multihulls suck?
Assuming some designs were by rule of law (a fallacy to begin with)
And assuming that the resultant designs generally suck (another fallacy)
You are using fallacious logic...
Latin "Post Hoc Ergo Proctor Hoc"
http://www.uoflife.com/wc/concepts/fallacy.htm
Actually, looking at the list, it's hard to find any fallacies you
haven't used.

[sailsmall]

Do you mean to say that Frank uses poor logic as well as inaccurate facts? I'm shocked!

[mackid068]

Frank. Stop thinking what you're thinking. You're being paranoid schitophrenic (how in heck do you spell this?). Not everyone's out to get you...

(He's thinking: EVERYONE'S OUT TO GET ME! BUY GUNS! BUY GAS MASKS! HOLE UP IN A SHACK IN MONTANA!!!)

[mackid068]

Oh nitwits....lol. They're all over the place.

"The IT folks are the WORST people to get into sailing in their adult life. They focus on all the wrong things. They are usually unathletic and finally want to try a sport of some type. They find sailing great because there is so much theory and so much to read and talk about, there are also so many excuses to explain why you suck… we need new sails, my crew sucks, it was the race committee’s fault, I was being hunted, etc. They also love to talk about gear, and buy the best gear and talk about design, but god forbid they just spend time on the water sailing, not motor sailing, f-ing sailing, in all conditions."

Seems true, but I'm unathletic and I sail Lasers and fence (the sport...).

Hm, but why not just give them a powerboat? Maybe they just want to be a sailor for the coolness factor. Cause it is cool, but nothin' wrong with powerboats. if you want a 90 hp engine, get a powerboat...or a HUGE yacht.