TP52s

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by TP 52 Defender

Quit talking out things you do not know about, stop making derogatory accusations about good sailors & designers, stop trashing a class you know nothing about and STOP LIYING.

"Any used boat that is brought in for racing is exempt from the (most often presented as absolute) restriction on importing a used boat not put into service in Europe prior to 1998. See http://www.conformance.co.uk/CE_MAR..._boats_sea.html. However when Trader is retired from racing, her designers expect her to have a life as a cruising vessel."

Trader is not intended to go into the crusing market -please show me that claim. Several 52's are CE marked you just can't help but make stupid statments can you. FYI = even CE marked boat can & do have electrical fires - there called accidents (A breaker fails or something falls incontact with the back side of the breaker board etc.)

OK defender. I will shut the falk up. But tell others not to cry out for me. It just gets me going again. These are exciting times for all monohull sailors. They are especially exciting for US Sailors because we have no internationally competitive ones. Given the size of the country there has to be a sailor somewhere who can win and we just need to let him or her fly.

Pitty me - I need a shot. Then check on how I do in the foot race tomorrow.

mighetto
wanking off.

[Shife]

Originally Posted by mighetto

TP 52 Defender

Quack Quack Quack

Stop blowing smoke about legal stuff. The Sailing Sport is international and you have to go through all the commitees set up for the sailing sport BEFORE you go to a court of law. There are so many of these that I doubt any post that is even marginally on track will get any one in trouble. Giving legal advise without a license however is another mater.

You are completely wrong Frank. The defamation you have engaged in on this site may well be sailing related, but a court of law will not care about that when you're on the stand. US Sailing and all the IRC and PHRF committees in the world will not save you from that.

[Shife]

For the TP52s to find life after racing as a cruiser, they should be able to be operated like a MacGregor 65 - with a crew of 2. Is that even remotely possible? I say pathetic. What say you?

I say you are complete and utter ***** incapable of learning. Why on earth would you be worried if someone will turn a TP52 into a cruiser? They were never designed as such. They were designed to be balls to the wall big action race machines with full crews. Thats what the owners want, thats what they got. Yes some of the big race boats have been converted to cruisers. So what? Who cares? Why the hell does it matter to you if some rich ******* wants to dump a ton of money into an old race boat to make it a cruiser? IT HAS NO EFFECT ON YOU AND YOUR LITTLE CRUISING BOAT! When the class is done most of them will probably rot in yards just like the other old classes and rules of race boats. Some may buy them used and try to race them on a lower budget in handicap racing. Such is life. The owners will have moved on the next bigger and better thing. The people that own these could care less about turning them into cruisers. That's not what they want. They want fast, lightweight, throwaway raceboats, that cost more than you'll probably ever see in your whole life. Let them do what they want with their money.

And just drop the whole CE mark thing. It's yet another subject that you just don't have a freakin clue about.

[usa2]

your an idiot if you want a TP 52 as a cruiser. They arent designed for it. Just like your beloved Mac26 wasnt designed to race. Thats the way it is. too bad for you. If you want to race a 26 footer buy a Soling or J80.

[usa2]

anything but a Mac26 will be fine for me (well nearly anything).

[Mark 42]

Isn't there a TP26 coming out soon?

If I wanted a 26 ft cruiser-racer I'd go with a Thunderbird.
A design commissioned by a plywood company almost 50
years ago to showcase the use of their product... simple,
classic, and still competitive.

http://www.thunderbirdsailing.org/ab...hunderbird.htm

Or if you want a slower & more comfortable boat, a Catalina 27.
Plenty of them out there.

BTW, the "5000" number given for Mac 26 hulls... is
that including the classic M26?
Or is that all of the MacGregors combined?

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by Mark 42

Isn't there a TP26 coming out soon?

If I wanted a 26 ft cruiser-racer I'd go with a Thunderbird.
A design commissioned by a plywood company almost 50
years ago to showcase the use of their product... simple,
classic, and still competitive.

http://www.thunderbirdsailing.org/ab...hunderbird.htm

Or if you want a slower & more comfortable boat, a Catalina 27.
Plenty of them out there.

BTW, the "5000" number given for Mac 26 hulls... is
that including the classic M26?
Or is that all of the MacGregors combined?

Just Max26x. Boy are things hopping on Sailing Anarchy. I guess I outed Scot. What is with that blimp tonight?

[usa2]

its the ORC 26 , and it is based on the TP 52 concept of a box rule based boat that is fast and and a good boat in nearly all conditions.

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by usa2

its the ORC 26 , and it is based on the TP 52 concept of a box rule based boat that is fast and and a good boat in nearly all conditions.

Sigh, Sudie Parker just will not let up. http://macgregorsailors.com/ is up and running and she is posting. Argh! Well she will not be engaged on sacrid ground - plus, I just can't help thinking her thugs had something to do with the outage. You do not need to be afraid of Tripp Gal. You need to be very very afraid. She now has every vessel racing in the sound in her data base. Data stollen from PHRF NW - no doubt. Nice article in 48 north nonetheless. Makes a point of mentioning every boat and owner. There is one in there by me as well. ORC - as in dead elvin creature from Lord of The Rings.

[usa2]

do you have a problem with the ORC 26 box rule?

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by usa2

do you have a problem with the ORC 26 box rule?

The roll out of this rule is part of the strategy that put Teeters in court to attempt to make the Mac26x out as a baby killer. It competes with the Mac26x on two levels. First as a race trainer.

Fixed keel boats are selected as trainers not because they are good for the student but because several newbes can be put on them with one instructor and the students can be moved about to different possitions with out risk of capsize. But that selection wasn't the case in Sudie Parker's area.

In Sudie Parker's area, Mac26 vessels had been used as trainers. When the Mac26x came out, the existing instructors could not be retrained in the Bethwaite ways of the X and those ways conflicted with US Sailing Certified training materials - materials developed in significant part by Jim Teeters. Macgregors stopped being used as trainers at that time and rondezvous of the kind I wrote about in 48 north (yes it is me in the center of the photo) moved elsewhere to avoid those instructors who were vocal and unable to see that Bethwaite style craft were relevant.

The Mac26 classics were favorite training vessels because - unlike the ORC 26 boats - they float even when flooded. If you can not see how this is good for students then you might as well stop reading now because there is more wrong doing involng the ORC 26.

Those trained on an ORC 26 who become interested in purchasing their own vessels natuarly are going to think about the purchase of a used if not new TP52. The training on an ORC 26 will likely lend itself to sailing a TP52. So the ORC 26 perpetuates the style of sailing that has made the US trained so incompetent internationally and it helps create a place (the US) where TP52s can be dumped.

Russel Coutts, a man who you know I respect, is now recommending that future TP52s be lighter - to the tune of the weight of 10 crew members plus 500 kg. Plus he is recommending changes to the rigging involving the backstay and a complete rework of the sail plan. In addition, the repositioning of the TP52 as an IRC boat appears to involve removing the bulb from the keel. These are good things that can save the class. Lets stop pretending that the TP52s are not IMS boats. Such a spin. Everyone agrees that IMS is dead; Hence the TP52s are dead if they can not shed that label.

Now for my second objection to ORC 26 box rules. Of course I am making assumptions because I have yet to find a place where I can read the final version of them. Sudie Parker is selling herself as an engineer on the Macgregor boards and I assume the engineering she wants to support was that advanced by Jim Teeters involving LPS of 128. When I became aware of Teeters' testimony in the 2002 drunken boaters case, Tripp Gal and I were in spirted debate on a thread she started to discuss engineering of sail boats, called The Future of Yacht Design. She started this thread by calling attention to my cruising log and eventually I was asked to defend what I had written in that log about the Mac26x.

Repeated requests to Ms. Parker as to her connection with Jim Teeters were rejected. I had and still do suspect that Tripp Gal actually worked on behalf of Jim Teeters, likely even being paid to do so, and had at least innitially been testing out arguments with me on Sailing Anarchy to prepair Jim Teeters for court. Anyway my second objection to the ORC 26 box rules is on engineering grounds. I just do not see how that kind of monohull engineering represents the future of yacht design.

Now the last point. US Sailing will not be supporting the elite race machines as it had in the past. So who will support the ORC TP26 vessels? It takes a lot of organization and money to introduce a new one design. Without the incubator of say PHRF, the ORC26 has little chance in hell of market success.

Hence, the polution of PHRF by folks like Tripp Gal.

I told you not to read further. Remember that the first theory accepted today by the US masses is a conspiracy theory. What say you now?

[usa2]

you know, and the rest of the world knows, that the Mac26 was never used as a trainer for people aspiring to be racers. The 26 footer that IS used often is the Colgate 26, or even a J80. there are probably some god boats that i have missed, but the MAc26 is not one of them.

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by usa2

you know, and the rest of the world knows, that the Mac26 was never used as a trainer for people aspiring to be racers. The 26 footer that IS used often is the Colgate 26, or even a J80. there are probably some god boats that i have missed, but the MAc26 is not one of them.

What makes the trainer sailboat is when a Navy selects them, as is the case with the Colgate 26 - and Tasar That is the extreme form of market acceptance. I believe both the Colgate and Tasar float when swamped. The J80??

Anyway the 1/2 TP52 is unlikely to be an acceptable off shore training vessel because if you look at the J80, it wasn't. That is in spite of considerable effort - I suspect. You just do not want a trainer that sinks in the modern age when sound engineering can address that huge compromize on safety.

Quoting Cris 249 on Sailing Anarchy

Hmmmm, let's see. The quest for a stand-alone box rule for small racing machines has so far brought us the ILC 25, 30, Mount Gay 27, MG 30, MORC 650, Open 30.....yep, we need another failure, there haven't been enough so far.

Now consider the 5000 Mac26x vessels. These are sucessful by the numbers and have been deployed world wide. They fit in cargo containers as the OR26 boats are to be so they are transportable to races world wide - like Tasars and they are true ocean sailboats - Costa Mesa clan, now in copy production in Australia (Mach 28). Lets see the Austrailian Navy select them as trainers eh? Add to that the ability to get to wind worth training in - owing to fast motors - and you have awsome potential as a modern race trainer.

[mighetto]

you know, and the rest of the world knows, that the Mac26 was never used as a trainer for people aspiring to be racers. The 26 footer that is used often is the Colgate 26, or even a J80. there are probably some good boats that I have missed, but the MAc26 is not one of them.

Every day is Sunday in the rich man's world.

I want folks to realize what happens when you speak badly of someone who is a manipulative preditor. Someone like Fred on the TP52 Trader (done in by a FRED - Fackin Rediculus Electronic Device, that Single Sideban radio). Or some one like Sudie Parker, now the Down on Sex http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/vi...=3659&start=19 Tripp Gal of Macgegor.com. (formerly that sexy little Amish girl and possibly now Hillsinger) )

I find it so KEWL that more Sailing Anarchists and newbes have figured it all out. There is hope for an entire generation of sailors now. Especially you Reemel.

Anyway - for those now being acused of being HWNSNBS (He Whoes Name Should Not Be Spoken) (thats me - mighetto)... Anyway for the acused...

This is what you should expect. First of all, those of us raised in a proper society will assume that when you speak badly of others you have a chip on your sholders, that the problem is really with you, and that you are going to ask us to take sides. If we are conflict avoiders we know that we will be better off shunning you and the acused. So what you have to realize is that the really manipulative preditors bite every one, even those who are nice to them, eventually.

I suspected and was correct that Tripp Gal had bitten others and would bite again. When my lightening rod status was removed by my sailing the Galapagos, like a rabid dog she had to bite others. (she had to find another Rod . The bite was to a multi-huller and former Macgregor 26 owner. I suspect she also bit a race chair and former Macgregor 26 owner. And barked at a Commodor and former Macgregor 26 owner. She definately bit a Toliva Shoal organizer and former Macgregor 26x owner, only perhaps the Commodor deflected that one. She continues biting and chewing up PHRF NW former directors and directors, I suspect.

Contrary to USA2's post. The Macgregor 26 line has produced many great racing sailors because of the Macgregor racing organizations that existed prior to recently. Not one but two sailing schools used the Mac26 classics out of Port Orchard and Poulsbo, where Tripp Gal currently weaves her evil web under the banner of CYC - West Puget Sound.

When I took on a board positon at South Sound Sailing Society I didn't do so to hold hands and sing Kumbayah. I was nominated specifically because I had taken on Tripp Gal - so great is the Membership of SSSS. While I now feel bad about what is happening to Sudie Parker, not doing my job energetically is not an option. She dishonors PHRF just as the owner of Trader dishonored all TP52 clan by now advocating boycot of the Transpac.

Oh - when you hear that someone is ambisous and charming know that this is code for manipulative preditor. I have yet to be called charming

[Mark 42]

Originally Posted by mighetto

... I will find a blue rag someplace or you can drop a flag off on Murrelet.

Why not buy a blue flag instead of getting your boat measured for IRC? Better way to spend your money.