TP52s

[mackid068]

I wonder what would happen if someone went and took a Hobie Cat or a Laser Standard (or even the really small 4.7 rig)to race a Mac26. I have a feeling that the Hobie or Laser would win...

[usa2]

i know a hobie would completely burn a Mac26

[mackid068]

It certainly would. Even a tiny little Hobie Bravo (the smallest Hobie cat, made in rotomolded plastic) would beat the Mac 26 by at least 30 seconds in a good sized course, triangle or otherwise. Maybe the Mac would pick up a bit on the downwind leg though (If it has a spinnaker up).

[Jim Hauser]

You are way out of your league Migghie.

The people of whom you speak so poorly of are some of the most kind and supportive people of sailing. You should reconsider your comments about the people who devote so much. Their generosity and enthusiasm is what is necessary to revive our sailing communities.

I'm not a crew member of TG's but I would be honored if ever invited to join their ranks. My sailing skills are not up to snuff to race against the people she sails against, but Id be rail meat anyday. She's obviously a good person, a lesser individual would have poked you in the eye or punched you in the nose by now. I assume she is aware of your obsession over her. Has anyone contacted her about Mighetto's latest fixation?

[DLackey]

Uuuuh, no I don't.

It's a J24.

Originally Posted by mighetto

Dave has a synergy 1000 that scares the pants off of the olympia boats.

[Reemul]

Speaking of J24's, Where were you last night? Missed you on the race course. Turned out to be a good race.

[TP 52 Defender]

Correcting the lies -

Several of the generation 2 TP 52's have made mode changes including some appendage work (2 have defiantly made these changes with success). The generation 3 boats have been looking at new modes since KW 2004 to weight the boats for more upwind speed.

However these changes are to make the most out of the boats within the class not to take them to handicap classes - care to comment on the domination of IRC by the 52 in the Annapolis to Newport race? The only fool here is you Frank since you refuse to recognize the superiority of the TP class. Also you need to sit down and look at the following and explain the differences

A cruiser that is raced - a racer cruiser - a racing yacht

It must be killing you that the New Juan K boat is now going to be built 31 boats by KW 2006 (and growing).

Also the fact that you stand by what you posted here show us that you admit to your lies (and claim ownership) - your 1/2 way there on the apology, be a man and finish what you've started.

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by TP 52 Defender

Correcting the lies -

Several of the generation 2 TP 52's have made mode changes including some appendage work (2 have defiantly made these changes with success). The generation 3 boats have been looking at new modes since KW 2004 to weight the boats for more upwind speed.

However these changes are to make the most out of the boats within the class not to take them to handicap classes - care to comment on the domination of IRC by the 52 in the Annapolis to Newport race? The only fool here is you Frank since you refuse to recognize the superiority of the TP class. Also you need to sit down and look at the following and explain the differences

A cruiser that is raced - a racer cruiser - a racing yacht

It must be killing you that the New Juan K boat is now going to be built 31 boats by KW 2006 (and growing).

Also the fact that you stand by what you posted here show us that you admit to your lies (and claim ownership) - your 1/2 way there on the apology, be a man and finish what you've started.

Deal with me as an equal. The fact is that these Mac26x vessels are getting more press than an army of paid TP52 bloggers and hackers and reporters can generate and there are good reasons. All of the owners are truth seakers. The truth is that Macgregor Yachts has done more for the sailing sport in the US than 10 US Sailing organizations and that the system of patronage that has made the sport so unfun, driving literally 100,000 sailors away each year, has given way now to IRC. Lets see how the Transpac goes. I suspect you are still better off purchasing a used SC70 than a TP52.

here is the breakdown from racer to cruiser. It is based on the Displacement to Length ratio; disp/2240/(.01*lwl)^3

racer < 100
racer/cruiser 100 to 150
cruiser/racer 150 to 300
cruiser > 300

Now see what happens when you chat water ballast. All of the sudden you have a vessel whose displacement varies. Blowing the ballast out on the Mac26x, for example, changes her from a cruiser/racer to a racer/cruiser. This is something that the IRC raters can handle. It means that the vessel one cruises on, say a Mac26x, becomes the vessel one also trains to race on. Lets do recognize that a serious racer will move to a race boat (perhaps the Flying Tiger) eventually. Lets also recognize that crew on a TP52 or on a Tripp 47 learn less than one third of what is required for competitive racing. This is a function of only learning windward leeward just as it is a function of not learning that there are 4 modes of sailing and how to reef. They also learn how to live in a cave. IE how to subsist on s#@t, stay in the dark and grow up a mushroom. If I could save more American sailors by sending them to Dale Carnege where they learn be their own person, instead of a mushroom, I would. The cycle of failure in international competitive sailing for the US born needs to end. I think it ended with Teeter's attach on the Mac26x, which was done to support the principles of the TP52 design. The truth shown bright owing to testimony from Taylor and the impeachment of Teeter's testimony and the Teeter Principles, ie the TP52. Lets not see a 1/2 TP52 (IE the TP26) ok? Lets instead see a 2 times Mac26x design.

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by mackid068

I wonder what would happen if someone went and took a Hobie Cat or a Laser Standard (or even the really small 4.7 rig)to race a Mac26. I have a feeling that the Hobie or Laser would win...

Yes, but I think I can beat a Santana 20 in gusty conditions. We have passed them. The Santana 20s race PHRF at SSSS. It is one of the great things about our Society. Thank God they were not scared off this year. It was a great thing. That and the Argh you - Arr23 - arguing dockside I have three Puget Sound Energy folks running Murrelet this week end. Treat them kindly on J dock please and if we do not make McMickan Island, carry on with out us. Of course we are always interested in a race to the Saturday cruise in.

[skinny boy]

You are not an equal and should not expect to be treated as such. You are an Internet bully which does not act in a professional or ethical manner. You have violated intellectual property rights, used libelous language against several individuals and have knowingly made statements that were not true. You have attacked your own club members and people who have and continue to do more for sailing in all forms than you have or will ever do. While you do your Internet tirades others are out there taking people sailing. You talk about all the people that Tripp Gal is training and how bad it is, but from my view, all I see is someone that is out getting new people into the sport and you tearing down and attacking them. Which one is more valuable to sailing as a sport? The armchair want to be sailor or the one out weekly bringing new people out. I have been told that Tripp Gal holds spots on her boat for new people and will make room for anyone who wants to try sailing out. In quick review I see they have been out no less than 16 weeks this year and that is just what shows up on a quick yahoo search for race results. You on the otherhand have no such story to tell. You are a mean spirited and unethical person and will never be considered an equal because of that.

Little hint for you, no one cares about the Mac26x or any other MacGregor boat, they are what they are, motorsailers which have a market in the low budget, entry level boat owner that wants the compromise of convenience of motoring but sometimes a sail might be nice while having the biggest interior you can get. This makes is not a particulary good motor boat and not a good sailor. Purist on either side will find it repugant but the rest of us will know everything in life is a compromise and this is just another set of choices to be made along the way to enjoying life.

[Reemul]

Originally Posted by mighetto

Yes, but I think I can beat a Santana 20 in gusty conditions. We have passed them. The Santana 20s race PHRF at SSSS. It is one of the great things about our Society. Thank God they were not scared off this year. It was a great thing. That and the Argh you - Arr23 - arguing dockside I have three Puget Sound Energy folks running Murrelet this week end. Treat them kindly on J dock please and if we do not make McMickan Island, carry on with out us. Of course we are always interested in a race to the Saturday cruise in.

Frank you have never even been close to beating me. And if you can't beat me you will never ever beat one of the S20's in our club. They are all VERY well sailed and I believe that at least 1 of the skippers has sailed in the Nationals. Of course for you to race one of them you would have to race in B-fleet and use a Chute. Come on big talker. Race B-fleet next weds and take me on. I'm sure there will be at least 3 or 4 S20's out there. also, maybe a Holder 20 and a J-24 along with my S2 7.9. We are waiting............

[Shife]

"The grandiose claims of narcissists are superficially plausible fabrications, readily punctured by a little critical consideration."

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/dsm-iv.html

Frank, you need help. Get it before it's too late.

[WildCherry]

Ok, Frank says he can beat such and such boat in this wind, and such and such boat in that wind, and that a Mac can do so many different things. Prove it!

Ill Pony up some money, say $1000 , against you never posting again about a Mac, or a TP52 .
I challenge you to a race. Your Mac against whatever boat you want to race against. How about a Santana 20 that you say you can beat. Ill take one of those. You pick the wind (gusty)and time of your demise.

[TP 52 Defender]

Frank the reason I do not treat you as am equal is simple - You are not my equal, not even close.

The Mac 26 press is limited to advertisements an an occasional article on pocket cursers. As a fleet you have a intentionally low priced, mass produced, entry level cruisers - you have almost no effect on racing fleets. US Sailing is a National Body and IRC is a rating method - do you even read the BS you are typing? No comments on the IRC race I mentioned is that because a TP 52 won? Could it be that the TP 52 beat a highly modified SC 70 (in fact according to some reports the 52 closed an 11 mile gap in less than 6 hours) that has you bunched up?

By the way on the cruiser - racer question: You got it wrong (does this surprise anyone).

The crews on a TP 52 bring the knowledge of sailing with them an apply it while racing (as in they already know way more about sailing then you will ever know). While a Tripp 47 is a very nice boat it is by no means a TP 52 you fool. While I can not speak for the Tripp crews I can speak for several members of the TP 52 crews - we have learned more in one race about sailing than you have learned up to this point in your life (this is blatantly obvious from your posts). Try to learn from your betters, It will make you look slightly less like a donkey>

TP 52 do reef as conditions warrant - as to living in a cave that is not a bad analogy (the rest of your comment is just envy I suspect) of the below deck conditions on a TP 52 in a distance race. It gets quite full but it is fairly comfortable for a GP race boat.

Me Teeters did not make his testimony on the tragic accident with any intent of supporting the TP 52 class. He simply pointed out the potential danger of un-ballasted vessels in the hands of idiots.

A TP 30 (or 26) would have nothing in common with you cursing power /sail boat - it would be designed to race.

I have offered to help, I have politely corrected your errors (and posted facts to provide support and encourage learning) - none of this has worked so I will (as I am able) continue to correct your abject lies, point out the dangers of your posts and require you apologies.

[mackid068]

"The fact is that these Mac26x vessels are getting more press than an army of paid TP52 bloggers and hackers and reporters can generate and there are good reasons."

You actually believe what you are saying, Mighetto?

"Your Mac against whatever boat you want to race against. How about a Santana 20 that you say you can beat. Ill take one of those. You pick the wind (gusty)and time of your demise."

I'll take a Laser against a Mac26 any day of the week. Heck, I'll even take an Escape Mango (9-foot yellow plastic bathtub) and win.