TP52s

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by usa2

next question from me: How, when, and what proof is there of a Mac26 doing 17 mph? It must take a lot of wind for that to be possible, and the hull shape of the Mac 26 above water creates a lot of windage. 26 footers are extremely hard pressed to achieve 10 knots in most occasions and the Mac 26 has a small rig, so i have some doubts regarding this claim...

Is is possible you are serious? 17MPH under sail is the manufacturer's claim for the Mac26x. It is a fact that this is in print and that fact can not be disputed. You can dispute the credibility of Roger Macgregor if you want. He does have a strong track record in boat design and building however. His mac25 is in the sailboat hall of fame. His Mac65 holds one of the longest records if not longest record in ocean racing and the Mac26x did cross first in the engine assisted class in the Newport Ensinada. Look at any minitransat. See that the know how of them is in this X design. Roger makes first over the line vessels. There really isn't any reason to doubt. Think how fast a vessel carying 1,400 lb less ballast than a conventonally ballasted vessel the same size would be down true wind in 12 knots.

Remember that MacGregor Yachts produced cruising cats for many years. Many owners (not me) beach Mac26x cruisers like a catamaran. I have listened to many versions of a story involving Hobie Cat athletes sailing a Mac26x at 17 MPH in Mexican or San Franciscan waters and one of these days I will bump into a first hand witness, assuming the story is true. The story usually involves a fleet of Hobie Cats with a Mac26x serving as mother ship. The Cats take off and those left on the mother ship take chase and achieve 17MPH under sail. Most assume the athletes on the mother ship hiked out and sailed unballasted. However, having achieved 12 and 13 MPH on several occasions now fully ballasted - with crew sitting inside the life lines - I doubt the X was unballasted or rigged so that hiking out could be supported. One captain has reported to Sailnet of reaching 17 MPH by starting off fully ballasted and dropping the ballast after stabilizing the boat on a downwind point of sail. Even if the Hobie-cat athelete-crewed Mac26x story is fable, pocket rocket is a valid descriptor for the vessel.

On the rig. The rig has to be appropriate for unballasted operation. Then it must be capable of heavy weather ballasted operation as well. What makes the rig not come down is that in both conditions the hull breaks from the surface of the water before the mast can break from the hull in a gust or blow. As with the minitransats the X mast and boom are built from the same aluminum stock. This allows jury rigging should a mast ever snap. None have to my knowledge. In a storm you are advised to drop the mast, just like masts were chopped down during the age of sail when conditions warranted that. Very practical design. The 1/2 TP 52s will have the same swept back spreaders as the Mac26x. As it turns out, even when sailing down wind, the vessel at speed deals with apparent wind that is forward of the beam. Hence traditional spreaders are not required so the main can be let way out and the rig mast supporting advantages of the swept back spreaders are deployed. The other important feature of the rigging is the use of roller furling. The ability to reduce sail without going to the bow is a big deal. Most X vessels have solid boom vangs. These not only give better sail shape but support the mast should the roller furling mechanism fail.



On freeboard. Most US Sailing instructed sailors have been trained to forget that freeboard varies with heel. The freeboard on a traditional sailboat will be high on the windward and low on the leeward. Unlike traditional sailboats, the Max26x, because it has the overall shape of a log, does not vary much in terms of freeboard when on heel. This means that while at rest the Mac26x may appear to have a lot of freeboard, under sail she is actually less burdoned than vessels where the freeboard varies with heel.

[sorenfdk]

Originally Posted by mighetto

17MPH under sail is the manufacturer's claim for the Mac26x. It is a fact that this is in print and that fact can not be disputed.

...and if it's in print, it must be true, right?
I believe usa2 asked for proof, not marketing BS.

[usa2]

just because its written there doesnt mean its true, as sorenfdk pointed out. I could write that i designed a sailboat that goes 20 knots to windward at 15 degrees apparent, but nobody will believe it unless they see it happen for real. Could you provide us with a video clip?

[mackid068]

Mig, can you just give a brief outline of what you've sailed and how you started sailing (and if you're really just a powerboater in disguise).

[Skippy]

My Laser does windspeed x 2, upwind. WITHOUT planing.

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by Migholoco

The freeboard on a traditional sailboat will be high on the windward and low on the leeward. Unlike traditional sailboats, the Max26x, because it has the overall shape of a log, does not vary much in terms of freeboard when on heel.

Migho, you are a dork. Please read what you have said and then go bang your head against a wall for being so stupid. I am not trying to be unkind or judgemental, merely trying to point out that you are talking about things you have no knowledge of, and thereby making an ass of yourself.
Steve

[TP 52 Defender]

Frank are you still around making up info and missleading those poor souls that will listen?

[mackid068]

He really is. THE MAC 26 IS NOT A TRUE SAILBOAT and that's that. Sorry for being aggressive, but that's just how I feel. The Mac 26 is not suited for more than costal motoring.

[usa2]

And the TP 52 is a boat designed for ocean racing and bouy racing. Simple as that.

[TP 52 Defender]

Lets just look at one of Franks lies for today:

"No TP 52 is measured under IRC..."
Lie - A TP 52 won the Annapolis to Newport race under IRC (A check shows that they have an endorced IRC certificate)

[stevel]

You keep insulting powerboaters when you are in this string, but you are all over the powerboat strings too. You will not get the most polite replies in those strings if you are insulting us over here.

[mackid068]

I'm all over the whole forums, but I believe that sailing is exclusive to sails and an auxiliary motor (for use only in incliment weather and for emergencies). I am also an ardent opponent of Frank's mistakes and blatant, though innoffensive, lies. So, Steve, relax.

[stevel]

Mackid I misread your last post having already got myself worked up over the post below which does seem to insult powerboaters , but maybe I misunderstood , which is the reason for my earlier post saying that you forgot the smiley faces.

Originally Posted by mackid068

By the way, powerboating is turn the key sailing without skill. POwerboating is not difficult, it's just like driving a car without brakes. Too easy!

That being said, I'll now take your advice to relax (by going on vacation for a week).

[yokebutt]

Jeeezz...

How come Mighetto gets all this action when he posts something, but half the time when I respond to a thread, it starts free-falling through the list?

We're not all that different, you know, we're both quite willing to spout off on anything and everything.

Yoke.

[Skippy]

Because people are such DOOFS.

"We're not all that different, you know, we're both quite willing to spout off on anything and everything."

Yes, but the troll is much more proactive about it. And he knows he'll never have an intelligent question to ask here, so he has nothing to loose by being such an arse.