TP52s

[SeaDrive]

Originally Posted by mighetto

Name shrubs after us. Something prickly and hard to eradicate.

This is what the psychologists call the "Lucky Jack Aubrey Syndrome." Inexperienced mortals believe they have qualities that fit them for command.

Originally Posted by mighetto

Face it,

We have a very accomplished sailor in my club. He sails a Ranger 23. He signs most email and posts with the tag line:

BE THE BALL

I didn't understand the tag line until Mike won the Island Series last month in Arr23. He sailed in spinnaker class, solo, and messed up every start. But he sailed hard in every race and made fewer mistakes than the competition. The win got the proper synapse fired.

What being the ball means to me is that you get kicked around. However, you are in every play and eventually all players understand that the game is not played properly without you and your POC. Eventually you may win and prove something. Hats off to Mike. He proved something.

I intend to be like Mike. Call three times and like Betelgeuse, and I will return. Other American sailors should follow in my place, just as I follow Mike. Name shrubs after us. - something prickly and hard to eradicate - We indend to master our crafts and command them like Mike on Arr23. You will find me on the SSSS Club board in Late Junuary but also here. There is much to learn.

Frank L. Mighetto
Be Like Mike, Arrgh 23
Great New Years Party! Let Fly for 2005

Mike, if you're reading this, take heart man. There are worse things that can happen than to be admired by Frank. Eventually the ridicule will die down. In the mean time, it's pretty funny that it happened to you!

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by SeaDrive

This is what the psychologists call the "Lucky Jack Aubrey Syndrome." Inexperienced mortals believe they have qualities that fit them for command.

"We do not all grow up to be the men we would have liked to be. But we are all still God's creatures" --- regardless of the Myers Briggs psychology tests. Regatta liability insurance anyone?

http://www.myersbriggs.com/0special_programs.htm

It is good to see the psychologists I work with in my managment consulting also involved in sailing. This makes me think I know what I am doing when I post here.

A Jack is a sailor just setting out to sea, also called a Jack Tar because of the tar that is placed on standing rigging made from hemp. (Yes the same stuff you smoke but not potent.) A John is a sailor who has returned from sea and with money in his pocket may look for services. A Jack of all trades is a master of none.

Lucky Jack Aubry had spilled so much of his own blood on Surprise that she could have been considered a relative. This may be what it takes to be both master and commander of a sailing craft.

OK, four films. The Dove, Wind, Captain Ron, Master and Commander. Tuesday, a few of us will be getting together to discuss Books. Berserk is not to be found post holiday. Sigh. Is it that good?

Okay, so it's been 2 months since you all first the eloquence of McMullet and the second he posted there were waves of warnings against this guy yet there was this "benefit of the doubt" thing that cropped up. If we all lived our lives like these message boards, we'd all be dead. We wouldn't wear our seatbelts, we'd touch the stove when it's hot, we'd eat rat poison, we'd have unprotected sex with yeasty wart ridden sluts, and we wouldn't look both ways before crossing the street. My point is..... listen to people's warnings. Seriously, this guy is a liability. He has given advice to unsuspecting people that will jeopordize their safety if they follow his words. Now that I think about it, there is a slight resemblance to David Koresh going on here. Here is the solution, and it is the ONLY solution..... Ignore him. Don't reply, it gives him something to feel like someone cares. Don't get me wrong, I think most humans should be respected, but this guy can cause serious damage if encouraged. Let him type himself to sleep. When he says something insane, chuckle, don't respond. When he says something half way intelligent, call guiness, but don't repond. It is the only way. Many of us have watched this trainwreck go from forum to forum, and yes, he has been cordially asked to leave several of them (he has also been extremely rudely told to get the F*ck out and many variations in between). You be the judge, but remember, don't stick forks into live toasters.

[mighetto]

Rolltacker

Okay, so it's been 2 months since you all first the eloquence of McMullet and the second he posted there were waves of warnings against this guy yet there was this "benefit of the doubt" thing that cropped up. If we all lived our lives like these message boards, we'd all be dead. We wouldn't wear our seatbelts, we'd touch the stove when it's hot, we'd eat rat poison, we'd have unprotected sex with yeasty wart ridden sluts, and we wouldn't look both ways before crossing the street.

A parting shot no doubt. Lets refresh your memory. Go to post number one. I was invited to chat about my Mac26x on Sailing Anarchy and encouraged to post here. In any community there needs to be a person all can hate for a while. This provides the glue that binds us together. We call those folks umpires in other sports. You would be ejected from the game for the above in any sport but sailing. Why is that? It is the same reason few in the US choose to follow sailing. The oversight needed for ethical play has been lacking.

My point is..... listen to people's warnings. Seriously, this guy is a liability. He has given advice to unsuspecting people that will jeopordize their safety if they follow his words.

I hate this rolltacker, your mother is such a nice person, such a hard worker for the sport, and has she has raised such a trophy kid. Thats you. Pay your club dues, she isn't paying them for you any more. Think about that. Think long and hard about that. It is time for you specifically to grow up. Be a captain and not a kid.

Now that I think about it, there is a slight resemblance to David Koresh going on here.

Well I did take up guitar. But save yourself. Hey why don't we both join US Sailing this year and make a new years resolution to work to make things better and not worse. You run a sailing school. How about putting some Bethwaite into it and pulling out some of that Teeter Principle. We can chat about it tonight if you would like at the performance sailing seminar.

I wish now to mention that at Stanford, students are taught that the guiding principle should be to do no harm. MacGregor Yachts, SUN Microsystems and Google were all student projects from Stanford that are showing that the ways of the East, of Harvard and of Yale, ways that teach that to accumulate wealth and prestige you must take wealth and reputation from others, are not the only ways. Many would say that they are not the correct ways. They are the ways of the big boys and gals the Bush administration is jailing.

Here is the solution, and it is the ONLY solution..... Ignore him.

The solution is to recognize that change is necessary big time. The old ways of US Sailing, the ways of the Teeter Principles, the ways of Bean Town, the Samurai Warriors, the Winlees, are in decline. We support these ways for show only now. We hope now to end the loosing ways of US Sailing in the Olympics and gain respect on an International basis for US sailors by moving away from that and towards modern designs. Dumping TP52s on the west coast is doing harm to competitive sailing on an international basis. Show boat sailing on the east where they are incapable of seeing the truth because they are all robots is just fine but lets make certain all recognize it for show boating and not for competitive sailing.

I think following Ellison, Coutts, and Kahn are best at this time. Concentrating on the leading edge of sailing like MacKee does is advisable. He will not appologize for that and neither will I. It means movable ballast. It also means recognizing the ones that really have worked to save the sailing sport in the US, like Ian Farrier and Roger MacGregor. Disparaging their products is not OK. We need more owners with their craft racing, not fewer.

Don't reply, it gives him something to feel like someone cares. Don't get me wrong, I think most humans should be respected, but this guy can cause serious damage if encouraged.

Ah yes Mr. Dangerous for being a Mac26x advocate. I do not appologize for favoring modern designs. Get this correct. Fixed fin craft and especially weighted fixed fin craft that when capsized will sink are an order of magnitude more dangerous than Mac26x vessels. And still they are less dangerous than freeway driving, if in like new condition. The X design from MacGregor Yachts represents the future of yacht design. The design of the TP52s represents the past. You know rolltacker, you have done me a favor by excluding yourself from our club. A great kindness. You caused all such distress with your tantrum about not joining. You will always be welcome nonetheless.

Let him type himself to sleep. When he says something insane, chuckle, don't respond.

Cry yourself to sleep, little one. Oh go cry to your mother. But I think she wants me to hit you hard so you will WAKE UP. You need not be a trophy kid, you could still be great. But you have to move away from fixed fin keel boats and Melges. Look at what they used in the Koch Cup. You could be the first on south sound with one of those.

When he says something half way intelligent, call guiness, but don't repond. It is the only way.

No drink a glass of Guiness. Actually we serve black and tans on Murrelet. half Weinheart and half Guiness. Weinheart on the bottom. Add a cube and its a Murrelet on the Rocks.

Many of us have watched this trainwreck go from forum to forum, and yes, he has been cordially asked to leave several of them (he has also been extremely rudely told to get the F*ck out and many variations in between). You be the judge, but remember, don't stick forks into live toasters.

Rolltacker, I bet you are not attending Andrew Kerr's session on the 15th. It would put you out of the lime lite. Contact me off list mighetto@eskimo.com if you would like me to pay for you to attend. I need someone to take notes. I am off to the Galapagos.

For God, Country, and the prize - rolltacker; this thread has always been about you, self proclaimed leader of the sailing anarchists.

See that I honor you by responding. Your own set you up for the above. I was expected to do you much worse.

[mistral]

such a waste of words.......
Mistral

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by DGreenwood

You know Frank I was among the larger fellows around in high school and in college. Played sports, was always fairly athletic demanded a certain respect and took lip from very few...but I never, ever, once, felt the urge to be a bully.

So I don't know what it is about you Frank, I just have this urge to get a twenty step running start and kick you right in the balls.
You must have taken some brutal punishment in school.

Actually I took it in Catholic School up until 9th grade. Those nuns can be brutes. Public high school was easy in comparison. Berkeley High during the war protests. I would not call them good times but the balls are intact. However, as is well known, no children.

Bill Gates was a bully in school. He probably was expelled from Harvard. It is one geat thing that Harvard may have done. Several books have claimed so. Bill's greatest kindness has been to stay out of sailing. We all hope his wife (a Catholic) will save him. Unfortunately, there are many in the sailing sport who are bullies and they are emulated by folks like rolltacker.

Anyway, you will not have me to kick around for much longer. This is the last week for my regular participation on this thread. So parting shots must be fired at this time. I sail far upwind from then on. My sailing career is just starting. As the new guy, I have done the duty. It is the next new guy's turn.

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by mistral

such a waste of words.......
Mistral

15000 views by the time I sail away. I think the words have mattered. They are worthy of archiving - even being proud of. You will be seeing them in the sailing magazines for the next year. It would be nice to remember that you were first informed here but not necessary. Remember Huzzah Huzzah and Let Fly.

[mighetto]

Wow Rolltacker is a thread killer. Might as well come up with the final analysis on TP52s. They are not TransPacific. Even the owners web site has now come around to that conclusion quoting Daily Sail

See http://www.transpac52.org/NewsArticles/062204.htm.

One of the first things to understand about the Transpac 52 class, is that despite it's name and that it was originally written on behalf of the Transpacific Yacht Club ....

it has been the principle point of dispute between US Sailing and the two other original stake holders in the new Grand Prix Rule...

In reality, the Transpac 52s we have seen are like upmarket, turboed versions of the Farr 52 (our apologies to other designers)...

The rule of course allows a free-for-all in terms of choice of designer, builder and sailmaker. Since the rule was launched in 2000, using the unrestricted Laurie Davidson design Pendragon IV as its model...

It is this owner's group who are now driving the class rather than the Transpacific Yacht Club...

There is also the thorny issue of whether or not owner-driver classes are what are required for the international grand prix competition...


Connect the dots. Pendragon IV is the red herring. There are now 11 Transpac 52s in existence. Pendragon IV is over 5 years old. The plans 7 years old. Hardly a popular model. But Sailing Anarchy continues to hype them that way. It is so sad.

http://www.sailingproshop.com/pendragonfoto1.htm

Laurie Davidson's design is more about looking like an AC boat that you could find in a museum in RI or Connecticut than ocean crossing. The design is from New Zealand.

The chairman of the Transpacific Yacht Club currently is Bill Lee, designer with Farr influence of the SC52.

http://www.transpacificyc.org/ will show not a single one TP52. Not a single one registered for the centeninal race. As of December 23, 2004 the following are registered.

53 Artemis Andrews 53 Louis Bianco Seattle WA
65 Barking Spider 3 MacGregor 65 David Kory Concord, CA
52 Blue J160 Ken and Cheryl Sears Nashville. TN
43 Bright Wing Catamaran John Walton Jackson, WY
40 Bubala Cal 40 Lloyd Sellinger Newport Beach, CA
40 California Girl Cal 40 Don & Betty Lessley Richmond, CA
40 Callisto Cal 40 James A. Eddy Glendale, CA
50 Chasch Mer SC 50 Gib Black Honolulu, HI
68 Coruba Sled Rob and Suzanne Fleming. Seattle, WA
35 Diablo J-35 Reed Bernhard Anacortes, WA
40 Far Far Cal 40 Don Grind Naples, FL
40 Illusion Cal 40 Sally Lindsy Honey Palo Alto, CA
52 Innocent Marriment J/160 Myron C. Lyon San Diego, CA
35 Jacaré J/35 Jeff Young & Rich Blackman San Diego, CA
43 Kahoots Andrews 43 Kerry Deaver & Bob Williamson Newport Beach, CA
45 Locomotion Andrews 45 Doug McLean & Melinda Lincoln Long Beach, CA
80 Magnitude 80 Turbo Sled Doug Baker Long Beach, CA
61 Medicine Man Andrews 61 Robert M. Lane Long Beach, CA
68 Merlin Lee 68 Patricia Steel Maui, HI
58 Odyssey Yawl Aurdey Steele Burnand Long Beach, CA
40 Phyche Cal 40 Steve Calhoun Los Angeles, CA
48 Plan B Peterson 48 David Johnson Long Beach CA
48 Pursuit Custom 48 Norman & Rosemary Dawley Solomons, MD
86 Pyewacket RP 86 Roy E. Disney Los Angeles CA
40 Radiant Cal 40 Fin Beven Pasadena, CA
40 Ralphie Cal 40 Taylor and Davis Pillsbury Woody Creek, CO
33 Soap Opera Hobie 33 Scott Self & Nigel Brown Rockwall, TX

There is a MacGregor65. Like this one.



Go Barking Spider 3, When MacGregor Yachts stopped production of the X, last year and in effect authorized production in Austrailia and Poland, my first thought was that the Mac65 or her stretch version, the Mac70, would soon be taking up factory production line space and that the M production run would be a short one, meant to satisfy Classic and 19 owners who wanted an upgrade that sailed similarly to the boat already owned as opposed to the revolutionary ways of a Mac26x.

In 1995, when MacGregor Yachts first became swamped with orders for the newly introduced MacGregor 26x, the 65 was taken out of production to devote MacGregor's entire five acre site to the production of the 26x. "In future years, the big boat, the MacGregor 70, will again be coming off the MacGregor 65 Corporation production line." states Roger MacGregor in literature promoting the mac26m.

The TP52 owners are apparently afraid to compete against them or Cal 40s.

The rejection of the TP52 by the TransPacific Yacht Club (or visa versa) for the 2005 Centennial TPYC event says much about the west-is-best coast.

Frank,
I don't own a boat to participate in SSSS events, nor do I ask anything from the SSSS. Though I love what SSSS is and does and I will give financially when I become a member. I have paid dues once in my life to SSSS. I cannot control how my mom acts because of the sailing I have done. She is a proud person, I am not, and I love her regardless. I have had many ill things said about me behind my back, and I'm fine with that, but someone like yourself who has been slandered directly to your face by so many should be worried. I've never built a website that tells people that sailing a Mac 26 offshore is a safe idea. It is amazing how YOU can gain all this prospective from reading books and sales brochures instead of practical application. Also very funny how you know me so intimately without ever having a face to face conversation with me. I will not be at Andrew Kerrs clinic, I'm sure he has valuable information, but it is disigned for the novice racer. Too bad you'll miss it. I have never asked for the "lime-lite" by the way. Others may point it at me, but I try to avoid it at all costs. Maybe that's why I don't come to SSSS meetings and am not a member. I have given back in other ways throughout my life and will continue to do so.

"For God, Country, and the prize - rolltacker; this thread has always been about you, self proclaimed leader of the sailing anarchists."

What??? This thread is about me??? You don't even know me and now I'm your nemesis??? I seldom go to Sailing Anarchy, nor do I claim any association with it, let alone a "leader", though I love how they worked you over like a stuffed pig. I love high perfomance boats. Yours is not one of them. It's a dog!

"How about putting some Bethwaite into it and pulling out some of that Teeter Principle. "

I got Bethwaites book when I was 16, you were still in a bayliner! I'm not the kind of person to go quoting verses from his book and not know what it means. I don't know who Teeter is.


"I do not appologize for favoring modern designs. Get this correct. Fixed fin craft and especially weighted fixed fin craft that when capsized will sink are an order of magnitude more dangerous than Mac26x vessels."

Good, modern designs are great, dont apologize. I have never owned a keelboat myself, so don't get the impression I love them. I don't oppose modern designs either as long as they are tastefully done. The MacX is an ugly powerboat with a mast.

"Cry yourself to sleep, little one. Oh go cry to your mother. But I think she wants me to hit you hard so you will WAKE UP. You need not be a trophy kid, you could still be great. But you have to move away from fixed fin keel boats and Melges. Look at what they used in the Koch Cup. You could be the first on south sound with one of those"

Amazing,....do you know how many trophies I have????.... I don't. I don't care about trophies or superficial items that show victory, just the victory itself. Maybe I could still be a great sailor, if I cared too, but I don't, especially if it means measuring up to your crazy stick.

"hit" me "so hard" I "will WAKE UP" Dude, you are a crazy coot who would be ill advised to lay a hand on me, but feel free to try.

Have you ever sailed a dingy??? I have, for many years. Have you ever raced a dingy??? I have for many years. Maybe that's why I use the term "Rolltacker" Did you know that most IACC people are cross training in Melges? Probably not. Why do you talk about things in which you know little about???

Some have conjured up some distorted image of who I am and what I have done and they believe it, but in reality I'm just another Joe. Others have put me on a pedestal in their mind, look at you.. you don't even know me.

I'm saddened by your lack of knowledge before you speak, your ability to ignore safety, and your complete disregard of facts and truths. Have fun commiting verbal pollution.

I will not email you as I publicly want ALL to read everything said.
I will not respond to you.

Wow. What a train wreck but I guess that's to be expected.

Hi Rolltacker. Don't worry about 'ol Franky. Just ignore him (I'd like to say "And he'll go away" but most know that that's not true).

He's not worth the sore typing fingers. See you up north this weekend?

[SailDesign]

Well, Migholetto, you have persuaded me to dust off the old Standard Usenet Bonehead Reply Form. THanks to its originator (credit where it is due), you can now have your own personalized version. Please print it out and consult it often:

*************************************************************

STANDARD USENET BONEHEAD REPLY FORM (Version 9.5) ---- Written by: John Henry
(check all boxes that apply)

Dear:

[X] Clueless Newbie
[X] Troller
[ ] "Me too"-er
[ ] Spammer
[ ] Racist
[X] Expert on everything (EOE)
[X] Flamethrower
[ ] News Groupie


You Are Being Flamed Because:
[X] You obviously don't know anything about the topic at hand
[ ] You are trying to make money on a non-commercial newsgroup
[ ] You posted a picture (binary) of something YOU think is really cool in an unmoderated TEXT ONLY news group
[X] You started a long, stupid thread
[X] You continued spreading a long stupid thread
[ ] You started a thread that has been discussed here continuously for the last year and a half
[ ] Your post is absurdly off topic for where you posted it
[ ] You didn't pay attention to the originating post header and posted a follow-up to crossposted robot-generated spam
[ ] You posted a "test" in a discussion group rather than in alt.test
[ ] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message
[X] You posted low-IQ flamebait
[X] You posted a blatantly obvious troll
[ ] You followed up to a blatantly obvious troll
[X] You said "X rules, Y sucks" and gave no support for your lame statement
[ ] You said "me too" to something and added NOTHING to the discussion
[X] You make no sense
[X] You posted the same text multiple times
[X] You made a post yet failed to say anything
[ ] You posted a phone-sex ad
[ ] You posted a stupid pyramid money making scheme
[ ] You claimed a pyramid-scheme/chain letter for money was legal
[ ] Your margin settings (or lack of) make your post unreadable
[ ] You posted SCREAMING in RANDOM CAPS (OR IN ALL CAPS) for NO APPARENT REASON
[ ] You posted a 1 line reply with PAGES of unnecessary quoted text
[ ] You didn't do anything specific, but appear to be so generally worthless that you are being flamed anyway


To Repent, You Must:
[X] Refrain from posting until you have a vague idea what you're doing
[X] READ every post in this group for two weeks so you can get an idea about what is discussed here
[ ] Read every newsgroup you posted to for a week
[ ] Give up your AOL account
[ ] Give up your WebTV account
[X] Bust up your modem with a hammer and eat it
[ ] Jump into a bathtub while holding your monitor (monitor must be plugged in)
[X] Actually post something relevant
[ ] Post to alt.test
[X] Print your home phone number and address in your ads
[ ] Be the guest of honor in alt.flame for a month
[ ] Nothing, we'll let you go this time


In Closing, I'd Like to Say:

[X] Get a clue
[X] Get a life
[X] Go away
[X] Grow up
[X] Never post again
[X] You need to seek psychiatric help
[X] Like a neutered dog, you just don't get it
[X] Take your gibberish somewhere else
[X] Go back to school and actually learn something
[ ] Learn how to post or get off the Usenet
[ ] Don't take offense at this, I just like to use this form
[ ] All of the above

What can I say, I had it coming. I am a bit of a punk. Yeah Dave, I'll see you up at Duwamish. Pray for breeze. Wonder what state the precipitation will be in? Solid, liquid, gaseuos?? Vashon was a grueller. I certainly did my fare share of passing out that long fall day. At one point our crew watched the driver of *boat name removed to protect owners reputation* actually fall down drunk, and it wasn't a soft fall either, it was one of those "I'll give him a 9.8 on the dismount" falls.

Cheers Dave!

[Skippy]

Rolltacker, did you think SailDesign was posting to you? Note the post is addressed to "Migholetto".

Skippy,
Thanks for the query, but I am well aware of where the slander goes. LOL I've been following this disaster around the net for awhile. Seriously, this has such marketing potential! I'm gonna make shirts and stickers and sell em!

My response about me being a punk was in response to D. Lackey's post to me about McMullets little quips in my general direction. I appreciate your concern though. By the way, have any of you been to the McMullet website?
http://www.eskimo.com/~mighetto/murrelet.htm

Be sure to tie a rope around your waste so we can pull you out of that abyss