TP52s

[DGreenwood]

Andrew
A noble effort...but a wasted one...well almost wasted. There are people here who appreciate the information.
Sadly, in mighettos' world, logical nuggets, like the one you just contributed, take on a whole new and unfathomable, meaning. Like the Coke bottle for the little bushman in "The Gods Must Be Crazy", he picks up such a piece of information and begins some unimaginable, to us, journey into reasoning. Unimaginable because it is barely recognisable as thought or language. The goal is not to understand or to introduce some intrigue or a new twist to an idea but to yammer on senslessly and interminably. What you are witnessing is; stream of conciensness data from a self imageless mind. He can't hear himself-he doesn't dare listen.The horrible gut wrenching fear that I have is that somewhere out there, are people that think he knows what he's talking about. What if this guy is a Scout Master or a school teacher or a Priest! (Cold shiver)
Wouldn't we all (the world) fare better if your efforts were directed at improving the understanding of those that have even the tiniest sliver of hope, even the remotest of possibility of taking it in, instead of trying to breath life into a walking corpse?

[Slipstream]

Originally Posted by DGreenwood

Andrew
.............The horrible gut wrenching fear that I have is that somewhere out there, are people that think he knows what he's talking about. What if this guy is a Scout Master or a school teacher or a Priest! (Cold shiver)
...........instead of trying to breath life into a walking corpse?

Some of the greatest horrors have been committed by a Priest under their habits and in the name of enlightenment or a God...........and some of them even preach stories about re-incarnation or resurrection............perhaps analogous to breathing life into a corpse?

Jeeeeezzzzzus..... Mighetto must be the new saviour......apropos at this time of year !

[water addict]

Originally Posted by mighetto

Why don't you enter the Olympics then and show us all how it's done

The fact that 50 somethings are competitive in the sailing events at the Olympics is something that is truely exciting about the sport to a middle aged man.

Then put up or shut up. Numerous folks here have asked about your racing/design experience- you offer none. Why don't you go for the Olympics then if you are so superior to the scores of posters here and shut us all up? I would be the first to congratulate you if you showed any measure of success. Why don't you design your own boat and compete then? Show us all how it's done- or shut up!

Originally Posted by mighetto

The exciting thing about a new boat design is that when the boat first comes out there are few experts. So if you work with the vessel as the designer intended you can become the expert. This is why for a young person I think it is very foolish to crew on boats that do not plane. It is harmfull to their sailing career.

A Mac 26 will not plane unless you crank up your outboard- or unless it's blowing 40 kts. In which case something onboard will break on your POS. So we should all buy powerboats?

Originally Posted by mighetto

We really are seeing a technology shift as great as that seen in the IT field in going from Visual Basic to Java.

You wish to demonstrate your ignorance of software development too?

Originally Posted by mighetto

The TP52 is likely still part of the samurai warrior class of sail boats.

Again give us an example of an acceptable boat- one that you approve of, so we can all kowtow to glorious you.
Perhaps you might guess all sailing is an outmoded form of transportation? Oh I forgot- logic escapes you. It is a recreational activity that people can explore any way they choose, in whatever boat they choose.

Originally Posted by mighetto

Today, you get on a US sailing team by patronage and keeping your nose clean. In otherwords by not speaking out or questioning, in otherwords by being a robot and living on the east coast of the US. There is little chance for a west coast athelete of promis at any age in that kind of a system.

There were quite a few west coast sailors on the Olympic team. Why don't you sign up, oh great one. Instead of criticizing, why don't you demonstrate by example how great you are? Again I forgot- it's because you are stupid, untrained, and you suck as a sailor.

[SeaDrive]

Originally Posted by Andrew Mason

As you can see from the 3 front views taken at 20 degrees of heel, the righting arms for the bulb keel and the assymetrical water ballast are very similar at this heel angle, while the centreline ballasted case has a significantly worse righting arm.

Mr. Mason, thank you for supplying the interesting diagrams. One thing that they illustrate to me is that a boat with assymetrical water ballast should have firm bilges so the water can be lower. That will help, but the lead keel will always be better when the boat goes keel up.

They also illustrate the reason that the canting keels have surplanted the water ballast in offshore boats. The righting moment at disaster time is much better. The thought of having the keel unit fail leaving the keel out of control is still very off-putting, however. I don't have the daredevil spirit.

D CLASS Races: 1 to 4, 1 throw out, * = throw out, @=assigned pints for RC duty
No. Race 1 Race 2 Race 3 Race 4
No. Sail No. Yacht Name Skipper Name Rating Strt 6 Strt 6 Strt 6 Strt 6 Strt Total
--- -------- --------------- ----------------- ------ ---- ------ ------ ------ ------ ------
1 272 ARRR-23 Mike Watkins 253 4 0.75 2.00* 0.75 0.75 2.25
2 39458 RELEAF Kelly Coon 247 4 2.00 0.75 4.00* 3.00 5.75
3 47727 ADAGIO Stephen Wade 218 4 4.00* 3.00 2.00 2.00 7.00
4 443 JOIE DE VIVRE Ron Lee 218 3 3.00 4.00* 3.00 3.34@ 9.34
5 69212 HAVIN' SUN FUN Bill Hutchinson 226 4 5.00 5.00 6.00* 5.00 15.00
6 585 WAHINE Garner Miller 259 3 6.00 8.00* 5.00 4.00 15.00
7 42884 LE SAINT LEWIS Jim Lengenfelder 0 1 7.00 8.00* 8.00 6.00 21.00
7 79020 MURRELET Frank Mighetto 241 1 7.00 6.00 8.00* 8.00 21.00


D CLASS Start Time: 10:00 Distance 15 nm Correctd
Finish Finish Course
Points Sail No. Yacht Name Yacht Type Rating Time Time Time
------ -------- -------------- -------------- ------ -------- -------- ---------
0.75 69172 SEGUNDO VIENTO CATA 27 242 14:26:26 13:25:56 4:21:26
2.00 1 VELA MERC 30 256 14:30:18 13:26:18 4:25:18
3.00 37079 OSA RANC 33 182 14:29:40 13:44:10 4:24:40
4.00 39458 RELEAF PEAR 30 247 14:51:28 13:49:43 4:46:28
5.00 1710 SPEND 2 0 CATA 36 171 14:48:04 14:05:19 4:43:04
6.00 69212 HAVIN' SUN FUN USY 27 223 15:04:50 14:09:05 4:59:50
7.00 171 HIROMI LAND 39 247 15:19:57 14:18:12 5:14:57
8.00 79020 MURRELET MCGR 26 241 17:00:00 15:59:45 6:55:00

D CLASS Start Time: 10:05 Distance: 10.4 nm Correctd
Points Finish Finish Course
Class Sail No. Yacht Name Yacht Type Rating Time Time Time
----- -------- -------------- -------------- ------ -------- -------- ---------
0.75 69172 SEGUNDO VIENTO CATA 27 242 15:56:11 15:14:14 5:51:11
2.00 1 VELA MERC 30 256 16:07:17 15:22:55 6:02:17
3.00 37079 OSA RANC 33 182 15:58:41 15:27:08 5:53:41
4.00 47727 ADAGIO RANC 28 218 16:07:53 15:30:06 6:02:53
5.00 39458 RELEAF PEAR 30 247 17:54:58 17:12:09 7:49:58
6.00 1444 PLATYPUS CATA 30 198 DNF
6.00 69212 HAVIN' SUN FUN USY 27 226 DNF
6.00 79020 MURRELET MCGR 26 241 DNF

D CLASS Start Time: 10:05 Distance: 20 nm Correctd
Finish Finish Course
Points Sail No Yacht Name Yacht Type Rating Time Time Time
------ ------- -------------- -------------- ------ -------- -------- ---------
0.75 1 VELA MERC 30 256 15:37:11 14:11:51 5:35:11
2.00 69172 SEGUNDO VIENTO CATA 27 242 15:42:50 14:22:10 5:40:50
3.00 47727 ADAGIO RANC 28 218 15:50:47 14:38:07 5:48:47
4.00 37079 OSA RANC 33 182 15:51:07 14:50:27 5:49:07
5.00 39173 BORU CROW 34 162 15:55:36 15:01:36 5:53:36
6.00 69212 HAVIN' SUN FUN USY 27 226 16:43:52 15:28:32 6:41:52
7.00 39458 RELEAF PEAR 30 247 16:59:03 15:36:43 6:57:03
8.00 79020 MURRELET MCGR 26 241 18:31:33 17:11:13 8:29:33
9.00 171 HIROMI LAND 39 247 19:25:21 18:03:01 9:23:21
10.00 510 CHAOS THEORY HUNT 35 176 DNF

Results are In-

please show the picture of frank with a reefed main in 8 knots. thanx

[Reemul]

Here it is

[Reemul]

It wasn't taken by me. It was taken by someone in my club. He goes by "sail" on Sailing Anarchy

[mistral]

may be Murrelet is heeling 15°, so why take a reef???? mmmmmm... maybe was it too scary reach that speed ????????
i think i know what your answers will be :-)))............
anyone got what he deserves.......
by the way in that shot Macgregor 26 looks more like a little fisherman with a mast and two ugly sails stolen and stitched up, than a sailboat worth of this name......

I'm too nasty.......i guess now my dinghy won't plane anymore, she will be soon cursed by Darth Vader-Mighetto, lonely prophet of the Dark Side of The Sailing

May the Force......oooops wind......be with You
Mistral

[SeaDrive]

Originally Posted by mistral

may be Murrelet is heeling 15°, so why take a reef????

It has to do with water ballast. You wouldn't understand.

I hope I don't sail my jib inside out, but I'm not sure how to tell.

[sorenfdk]

I'm a bit worried!
We haven't heard from Frank for more than 24 hours!
Has something happened to him?
Like a brain transplant or something?

He's doing his research. He'll be back. Firm steps need to be taken. Don't be tolerant, do it now!

Originally Posted by sorenfdk

Why would Farr Design want owners to "move up" to TP52s if they're (Farr Design, that is) transitioning out of them?


No - you got this one right

I'm withdrawing from this thread - it seems to be a waste of time!

Funny stuff that you are still here. Entertainment at its best I guess!!

[sorenfdk]

Originally Posted by Sailone

Funny stuff that you are still here. Entertainment at its best I guess!!

Yeah - it seems I can't control this perverted desire to watch someone make a complete arse of himself...
And what's worse: I'm afraid I'll miss him when he's gone But I'll get over it

[mighetto]

Good morning boat designers:

I was thrilled to find the following photo here



But alas, 5 by 10 prints could not be obtained. I have many comments. First HIROMI sailed one hell of a race and deserved to better Murrelet in the 2004 Hope Island Race.

Second, Murrelet, starting last because of her skipper (thats me), passed HIROMI before Boston Harbor. The two of us did appear to have bettered more than a few cruising class vessels closer to the harbor entrance, at that time. Heromi kicked Murrelet's butt big time in getting around the island and I do not know why Hiromi didn't finish better than she did. Her Captain was disappointed. I had to remind him last night that he beet me.

Second, Murrelet, like all the vessels in that wonderful event, finished close to an hour before sun down. It gets dark on a cloudy day here in Puget Sound at about 1530. This story is just dynamite , So I am pleased to tell it yet one more time. Folks just can not see that these Mac26x vessels do 8 and 9 and more knots in normal wind.

Here is what happened. After clearing Hope island, we set sails for reaching just like the rest of the fleet did and then WOW. The picture above is in forced mode, perhaps sailing at 6.5 knots, prior to rounding Hope island. We were beating with gusts now being reported up to 20 knots at that time. Sugar wiped out in the same wind and Pandora exploded her spinnaker. Anyway, my boat in the picture is reefed at the intermediate point on the main sail. While she has a backstay, the rig on all these boats is similar to if not actually BNR style (Hunter style) meaning you do not need a backstay. The wire, folks like to call a backstay, IMO is for motoring. It steadies the mast when operating at WOT. Perhaps some other designers can comment.

The rig on all these vessels is very flexible and fractional. I call it a soft rig. What this does in the design is similar to what a sailboard operator does with his or her strength and agility. That is constant adjustments to gusts. As wind hits the main it pulls the top of the mast back and that flattens the head sail. This is automatic and a contributing factor to stability and speed. I was single handling the race, like Arrr-23, the Ranger that has humiliated all the serious race crews with her first place series win. Well this Ranger is a serious race boat, so perhaps not. Hats off to Mike. Eyes should be open anyway. Why are they not?

Murrelet at 1530 was lining up for crossing the finish line. I watched Hiromi cross the line from the channel. Murrelet was far to the east of the channel. Hiromi as she passed the line reported to the committee boat that she had not seen me for several hours. The committee boat then called on VHF but for some reason I didn't hear the message. She waited perhaps 10 minutes and then turned on what I thought was her anchor light. I turned on my running lights thinking she was encouraging me on and was screaming for the last place finish. Only Dyno's light system is the kind where the red green and stern white lights are on the mast head. I wasn't observing an anchor light but rather her stern light and she had pulled anchor. I blasted my horn when crossing what would have been the finish line at a bit past 1600 and then motored behind the committee boat at the no-wake speed that was required shortly past that point. We agreed at her dock that I would still get a finish and the time would be 10 minutes after the hour (1610). There was still plenty of light and it was pitch black by 17:00. But I suppose later, this time was just UNBELIEVABLE. To make that time, Murrelet had to be sailing at J-Boat and S2 7.9 speeds, which she was. Eventually, you all will become believers. We are putting in a real backstay, upgrading the fittings, and most importantly replacing the center foil lifting line with a wire to reduce drag as well as getting a smoother bottom for the next series.

What does this have to do with TP52s? Well hell, they will be sailing against Arrr-23 and Murrelet in the same races, different classes. Thats about all. I suppose there is VPP implications. A Velocity Prediction Program developed under Teeter's influence was made avaliable to PHRF raters. These programs can handle planing designs but most do not. Instead they take a simplified approach to prediction that assumes displacement or simi-displacement hull speeds. That works well for a TP52 but is pure crap for a planing design.