TP52s

[ALowell]

mighetto:


Why do you argue so fervently against these TP52s? I know nothing whatsoever about the politics involved (perhaps because it's so tedious?), but I must say that you continue on as though your life depended on the banishment of TP52s and all other fixed keel sailboats. I'm just as smitten with movable ballast as the next guy, but it's not like we're talking about global warming or defense spending or nuclear holocaust. This is YACHT RACING - it is totally frivolous, for fun, recreational, entertaining, sporting. Why aren't you up in arms about the changing field proportions of baseball diamonds, or tennis racket dimensions, or shot-put ball irregularities? IT'S A GAME. FOR FUN. Go buy yourself all the movable ballast boats you want and let Farr et al figure out the answers on their own. No one is forcing you to buy a TP52.

*name withheld for personal safety*

[water addict]

Originally Posted by ALowell

mighetto:


Why do you argue so fervently against these TP52s? I know nothing whatsoever about the politics involved (perhaps because it's so tedious?), but I must say that you continue on as though your life depended on the banishment of TP52s and all other fixed keel sailboats. I'm just as smitten with movable ballast as the next guy, but it's not like we're talking about global warming or defense spending or nuclear holocaust. This is YACHT RACING - it is totally frivolous, for fun, recreational, entertaining, sporting. Why aren't you up in arms about the changing field proportions of baseball diamonds, or tennis racket dimensions, or shot-put ball irregularities? IT'S A GAME. FOR FUN. Go buy yourself all the movable ballast boats you want and let Farr et al figure out the answers on their own. No one is forcing you to buy a TP52.

*name withheld for personal safety*

You are trying to reason with a *****.

[SailDesign]

OK Guys, another 26 more posts and the post number will be my birth year. You know you want to .....

[ALowell]

Originally Posted by water addict

You are trying to reason with a *****.

He's not a *****; a ***** cannot make intelligent arguments for or against anything. My only curiosity was why he's so intent on converting the rest of us. What does it matter to him if we "lubbers" sail around in fixed ballast (read: affordable) boats?

[sorenfdk]

Originally Posted by ALowell

He's not a *****; a ***** cannot make intelligent arguments for or against anything.

Exactly - he IS a *****!

[ALowell]

Originally Posted by sorenfdk

Exactly - he IS a *****!

I don't know where the moderator is, but this kind of flaming gets us nowhere. If this is typical of the thread, then I have no interest in reading it.

~ ALowell

[sailsmall]

Originally Posted by ALowell

I don't know where the moderator is, but this kind of flaming gets us nowhere. If this is typical of the thread, then I have no interest in reading it.

~ ALowell

Frank, where are you man? Here is a soul just waiting to be converted. Bring this brother, or sister, into the church!

[PI Design]

Okay, so I haven't read all 129 pages of this thread, but it seems to me that post No. 1 was making serious comment about the stability (seaworthiness?) of a Mac 26. I struggle massively to follow what Frank means, his mind wanders all over and his words don't seem relevent to the questions posed - but does he have a point?

Sorry if I'm re-opening a can of worms - I would appreciate a precis of the last 2000 posts. I'm just curious.

[ALowell]

Originally Posted by PI Design

Okay, so I haven't read all 129 pages of this thread, but it seems to me that post No. 1 was making serious comment about the stability (seaworthiness?) of a Mac 26.

I'm not sure that was the primary thrust of the first post (note thread title: "TP52"). In answer to your question though:

For a time my Dad was interested in buying one but I convinced him not to on the basis that they look like kleenex boxes. They are indeed water ballasted, but I don't think they are any more or less stable than a hundred other centerboarders designed for shoal-water cruising. They are also very light, so if one did tip it would be very unlikely to sink (unless fitted with 50hp OB). I don't know, but one reason they may be so tall is to give them a self-righting tendency with more buoyancy higher up.

In general I found it to be a very cheaply built somewhat flimsy boat, but I don't think they are defective - they are just trying to fill a market niche. As of 5 years ago, their resale value was pretty high because of high demand.

~ ALowell

[PI Design]

Originally Posted by ALowell

I'm not sure that was the primary thrust of the first post (note thread title: "TP52").
~ ALowell

I told you I found it hard to understand what he wrote

I suppose I was just wondering whether there was ever a point to this thread, or whether it was always just gobbledy gook.

It seemed to me that the court case referred to might have serious repurcussions. There is a lot of debate in the UK at the moment about the strength and validity of expert witness 'evidence' in trials (not sailing related, just in general following several baby death cases). If 'false' evidence by the US Sailing chap materially affects Macgregor Inc then compensation would surely be due (and loads of it, judging by America's reputation for compensation claims). I'm not saying that the evidence from the expert witness was wrong, but if it was...

[ALowell]

Originally Posted by PI Design

I suppose I was just wondering whether there was ever a point to this thread, or whether it was always just gobbledy gook.

If by "gobbledy gook" you mean name-calling and arguments about sailing politics then yes, this thread is pointless.

If the lack of posts by mighetto and the last few tired insults are any indication, I'd say this thread is dead.

[RHough]

Originally Posted by ALowell

If by "gobbledy gook" you mean name-calling and arguments about sailing politics then yes, this thread is pointless.

If the lack of posts by mighetto and the last few tired insults are any indication, I'd say this thread is dead.

Check the start date ... (November 2004) this thread will never die. Just when you think it's gone, Frank comes up with some more demented drivel.

Before you flame me, read ALL his posts ... over two years worth ...

Come to your own conclusion if he has any valid points, on any subject, or even a grasp on reality as you know it. Every now and then new people come into this thread and think that there must be some content ... after all it is getting close to 2,000 replies ...

[sailsmall]

ALowell,

You need to realize that Frank has many challenges in front of him. He must demonstrate through the strength of his convincing rhetoric the inferiority of the TP52 concept while both in his own PNW neighborhood and in the larger world of grand prix racing there are deluded millionaires who cannot resist the sly marketing of the TP52 class. If Frank does not post here frequently it is only because he is battling the forces of PHRFNW and RORC on their own turf. Rest assured, in his own time he will return to this forum to regale us with his tales of heroism and conquest. Peace be with you brother.

sailsmall

[sailsmall]

Here is an oddity: http://www.rc44.com/Home/tabid/89/Default.aspx
How could such a well-respected guy like Russell Coutts have got things so wrong? No movable ballast, one-design instead of handicap, half owner-driver and half open driver (can't remember which one Frank preaches against, but they got it half wrong whichever it is). Not even a bracket to mount the outboard.

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by ALowell

If by "gobbledy gook" you mean name-calling and arguments about sailing politics then yes, this thread is pointless.

If the lack of posts by mighetto and the last few tired insults are any indication, I'd say this thread is dead.

Long Live This Thread!

What is the difference between "sailing politics" and "politics" in general. The great corporation Sailing Anarchy tries to make a distinction. There is none, just as there is no difference between life in general and the "sailing life". We speak of great changes in society when we speak of the demise of TP52s and the big fix fin keel boats. We speak yes of freedom.

ALowell, the world is full of followers and this would not be so bad if there were not so many bad leaders bringing them to wrong ways. TP52s are the last of a failed experiment in sailboat design but they continue to be an experiment in leadership. When young potentials can be made to ignore what their own eyes see there is demonstrated power. The power I speak of is from the ways handed from father to son and daughter. They are the ways of the slave holders. They are the ways of controlling animals, of controlling rail meat. We do great good with this thread. The Humboltian Current is strong.

Now tell me. Do those from the EU really believe the truth not knowable?

Frank L. Mighetto
write in candidate all positions SSSS