TP52s

[frankofile]

Frank, a nicely thought out reply to what is clearly a sincere request for information. I note some gaps though, and there are some things that you may not be aware of.

Originally Posted by mighetto

One of the sad things about racing PHRF-NW is that when a protest flag goes up you will have three or four boats do turns.

In any regatta, the Sailing Instructions, or SIs, may be written to modify the Racing Rules of Sailing, or RRSs. A common modification is to require witnesses to a fouling incident who intend to testify to do a circle. If the RC sees the event, and determines that certain boats had a good view of it, they can inform the potential witnesses over VHF that they must do a circle. That keeps people from suddenly appearing at the hearing to provide testimony who haven't done circles out on the water. This probably explains all the boats you see doing circles. It seems unfair at first, but puts a great deal of pressure on the protesting yacht not to fly their flag without good reason since so many of their friends will be adversely affected and will have to be provided with compensating beverages at the bar after the racing.

Originally Posted by mighetto

A proper training program cuts through that by using simulators.

Many programs have indeed tried electronic simulators for just the reasons you cite, however it has generally been found that even the best computer programs lack important analogies to real sailing. Plus, there is always the possibilty that the student is really updating his MySpace page or sending IMs to his friends whenever the coach's back is turned. Therefore, most reputable programs have gone back to the original standard for teaching racing tactics, seamanship, and boathandling; that is, pushing little wooden mock-ups around a painted body of water with sticks while the coach calls out condition variations (puffs, waves, etc.) according to rolls of the dice.

Originally Posted by mighetto

But the dumping of obsolete racing designs onto the west coast of the USA - especially Puget Sound - is a well accepted fact.

All true, but I think you missed the crux of the question here. Namely, why are potential boat owners on the West Coast, especially in Puget Sound, so stupid that they keep buying these beat-up old war horses of obviously flawed design? I'm interested in any insight you may offer.

Originally Posted by mighetto

The Mac26x has a gybing (or jybing) center foil.

A minor correction here, you seem to have some terminology confused. A gybing (or jybing) foil rotates the leading edge to weather (toward the windward side of the boat) under the lift forces generated by sailing across the wind. This concept was developed under the mistaken idea that the center foil is the primary foil in resisting sideways forces. The foil in a Mac26x is properlly called a "tacking" foil because it rotates the trailing edge to weather. As you correctly point out, this translates much of the sideways resistance to the rudder, resulting in a more efficient configuration. Raising the centerboard extends this process; however, care must be taken not to exceed the optimal foil-foil lift/thrust sharing ratio. You might be interested in researching, if you are not already aware of them, the investigations of hyper-optimal foil shape controls. The major design firms try to discredit this work, of course, but some higher learning institutions and some of the more original thinkers have produced some interesting results.

[Shife]

Originally Posted by mighetto

The VO-70s allowed the movement of solid ballast from side to side. We are not allowed that in PHRF racing but it is allowed in the mini transat racing. I have been told by both the mini-transat and VO-70 experienced that the movement of internal solid ballast is the greater provider of stability. This of course requires labor and a different sailing style. Because a tack requires a lot of labor to move gear from side to side you want to make fewer of them.
Frank L. Mighetto

Schock 40s race PHRF all the time, so where are you getting the idea that a canting keel boat can't race PHRF?

BTW...Stacking gear to alter righting moment during a race will not come close to the effect that a canting keel has, and is illegal under most handicap rules, but don't let that get in the way of the complete B.S. you keep writing.

[Mark 42]

Originally Posted by mighetto

My sailing carrier has advanced about ten times as fast as those buying into the code of silence. Yours can as well.
Frank L. Mighetto

So, how many races have you entered? Crewed in? Actually finished? Receiveved Trophies?
What other crowning achievements can you offer as evidence of progress?

Originally Posted by mighetto

When you run for office you have to expect some "funning" and dirty tricks.
Just remember me when you vote for directorships at South Sound Sailing Society and US Sailing.

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sho...&postcount=587

You want movable ballast?
Reduce keel weight and carry more crew members.
(Though PHRF may limit crew size... children don't count, so feed your kids!)

But if you want to get away from traditional lead fixed keels, why
are you sailing a monohull at all?

[RHough]

Originally Posted by mighetto

My sailing carrier has advanced about ten times as fast as those buying into the code of silence. Yours can as well.

Frank L. Mighetto

We can only imagine the starting point if where you are now is progress ...

[Mark 42]

I think of a linear cyclic motion...

[SailDesign]

Mark,
Get your mind out of the gutter
Steve

[Mark 42]

I was thinking about pulling the starter cord on that
big 'ol outboard motor when the batteries are dead!

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by Mark 42

I was thinking about pulling the starter cord on that
big 'ol outboard motor when the batteries are dead!

Yeah - riiiighttttt.........

[frankofile]

Could this be Frank interfering with another sailboat race? In Germany, no less. No wonder he has been quiet for so long!

[Mark 42]

Originally Posted by frankofile

Could this be Frank interfering with another sailboat race? In Germany, no less. No wonder he has been quiet for so long!

Naw, he's just lining up for the start... Of course the M26X is in the same class as the Melges 24's

[Shife]

Originally Posted by Mark 42

Naw, he's just lining up for the start... Of course the M26X is in the same class as the Melges 24's

Amazing. The similarities become glaringly obvious after a few drinks.

[Mark 42]

I think it's the skippers' silly hats.
(you know... sorta the opposite of a thinking cap)

[sailsmall]

Another team that apparently has not got the word that these boats are crap.

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe...tches%2007.htm

Don't abandon the cause Frank! A few thousand more words of your incisive rhetoric and I'm sure the tide will start to turn.

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by sailsmall

Another team that apparently has not got the word that these boats are crap.

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe...tches%2007.htm

Don't abandon the cause Frank! A few thousand more words of your incisive rhetoric and I'm sure the tide will start to turn.

The tide has indead turned. Thats Tide 28 if you want. Lets review:

I believe from reading Hobart transcripts that boats with a stability index of 110 are grandfathered but that new Hobart boats require 115.

A boat with 110 stability can not be knocked down by wind alone. However, all vessels can capsize in sufficient sea conditions. In 2004, an attempt to require a mathematically computed 128 limit of stability in ocean racing designs was orchestrated by those with vested interests in TP52s. In a stunning defeat, the grand prix (GP) Rule Working Party (RWP) rejected mathematically derived stability requirements.

The GP RWP did this to support movable ballast designs. Today stability tests for off shore monohulls are performed, not by mathematics, but in test pools where the sailboat must be righted after a capsize simulation. Overnight the TP52s were made obsolete because they adhere to 128 and higher mathematically derived stability ratios. They do this with keel attached weight. Weight that makes them slow when there isn't enough wind to carry them to hull speed.

In a mater of months after the GP RWP decision, Mac26x production in Australia began by a company known for its Sydney Hobart work, and a new British powersailer was launched.

That British powersailer used the engine as a significant portion of her ballast and is called the Tide 28. The manufacturers went through the hastle of trying to get the boat rated category A, not an unreasonable thing given that the boat has positive flotation and hence serves as it own life boat, but eventually settled with category B. Today the youngest sailor to cross an ocean did so in a British powersailer Tide 28. The tide has indeed turned.

The British powersailer was followed by a Swedish one, the Oden 720, to complement the German Oden 820. I believe TP52 supporters deliberately disparaged movable ballasted vessels of any kind. The Tide 28 uses a centerplank. Water ballast in concert with weighted and unweghted foils will be the new order. The external weighted fixed keel erra is over. The 100 year old experement in fixed weighted foils will soon be. The perceptions of the Mac26x and her cousens in the sailboat ocean racing community are becoming more and more favorable owing to the GP RWP rejection of TP52 design notions. We need to move on and start designing real sailboats for modern times, which not surprisingly are going to look more like the sailboats at the end of the commercial age of sail. Smaller and eventually no dangling testicles.

Frank L. Mighetto
South Sound Sailing Society

[dumbass]

Why do I get a feeling that his wife must be out of town so he didn't take his meds?