TP52s

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by Nosme

Wow....................this site is better than pay TV.

I always have thought such. Join me in Software Anarchy (ZDnet). Don't know why I ply those waters when Sailing is what really matters.

Migetto-isms are not nearly as profound as Juan K -isms

"It is true that the class requires a new generation of sailors. Those who sail these boats should be of the NEW GENERATION, because it has proved hard for some of the old school to adapt quickly enough. If the sailing world is ready to accept this fact, then great. If not IT WILL ALWAYS BE A COMPROMIZE"

Kouyoumdjan is a rebel with a cause. That cause is to put a cap on TP52s and advance the state-of-the-art in Volvo 70s and yes even boats like MacGregors. The days of the fixed fin keel boats are over.

Frank L. Mighetto
write in candidate US sailing
all unopposed positions

[marshmat]

Originally Posted by mighetto

Kouyoumdjan is a rebel with a cause. That cause is to put a cap on TP52s and advance the state-of-the-art in Volvo 70s and yes even boats like MacGregors. The days of the fixed fin keel boats are over.

Umm, sure. I'm pretty sure TP52 is still a box rule class, not a one design. And as impressive as VO 70s are, show me a TP52 that was crippled mid-ocean by blown hydraulics, or that was abandoned at sea because of a keel hinge.
I still don't get the point of one argument that keeps coming up. A 26 foot trailer cruiser built for inland lakes and protected inshore waters, is repeatedly compared against a 52 foot, dedicated race yacht. They aren't targeted at the same market, they aren't suitable for the same kinds of conditions, the price differs by more than an order of magnitude as does the average skill of the crew. The only similarities are that they float, they can be powered by the wind, and they are made of composites. Does anyone still think they're comparable?
I'd like to see David Pascoe turned loose on a Mac26 that's washed up after a hurricane. That could be fun.

[TP 52 Defender]

Juan K's design was not allowed because it did not follow the class rules - simple no? O' yeah - What the H... happened I thought this was dead ? 30 + TP 52's and new boat still being built.

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by TP 52 Defender

Juan K's design was not allowed because it did not follow the class rules - simple no? O' yeah - What the H... happened I thought this was dead ? 30 + TP 52's and new boat still being built.

Simple, hardly. Please elaborate. AFAIK the design hasn't even been measured so why are you so certain it doesn't follow the class rules? Because one man said so?

Don’t blame me, blame Kouyoumdjian. Here is how I interpret his comment. The TP52 WILL ALWAYS BE A COMPROMIZE. The nature of the boat is that it big enough to carry enough land lubbers to make purchase of a named sailor viable financially, and that newbes can move around easily and change positions to get value from whatever they have paid to participate.

Novice designers can see. Kouyoumdjian appears to agree and bang now the disparagement on this designer. Let me also add the Kahn has bailed on the TP52s, these are at best race trainers designed to be large enough to allow their owners the thrill off hiring great sailors and spreading that cost between others on deck. There are going to be fewer than 20 racing. Its the Edsel of the sailing world. Do you really disagree? If so please do some research and get back to us. Kouyoumdgian has designed IMS boats and it blows my mind that he might some how miss on the design of a TP52. What is the beef regarding his design. I assume it is within the box rules because Juan K is more than competent as a designer.

Frank L. Mighetto CCP

[TP 52 Defender]

1. The rudder design was illegal as drawn
2. The rig and backstay where not up to class specs.
- Backstay "flickers" where illegal
- CG as specified would not measure in
3. The drawing floated by Juan K was also not real - it was just to shake things up.

More than 20 boats are currently racing

However I do agree the TP 52 will always be a comprimize. One can not simply keep making any changes to the boat to make it faster - that is why it is a box rule. To claim a 52 is a race trainer shows that in your absence you learned nothing about sailing. As to being able to carry non-sailors onboard and race - never happen, no where to hide them. 95% of a TP52's crew are paid pros (If the boat wishes to do well)

Take another brake Frank and go to J World racing school and learn about sailing some ok .....

[usa2]

Frank, it was the measurer did not allow the Juan K boat. All the other TP 52 owners agreed that the boat should rate as a TP 52, and they have invited her to join the fleet in future regattas.

[marshmat]

Every boat ever built is a compromise. There is no possible way that all desirable goals- low cost, high speed, efficiency, seaworthiness, shallow draft, good bridge clearance, accomodation luxury, etc- can be met in a single boat. There are always tradeoffs. And if you don't like the tradeoffs chosen by the designers and buyers of a particular boat, you simply don't buy that boat. I can't think of anywhere else I have ever seen one man slander one boat so heavily, and without any backing or justification at that.

[Sonadora]

Hey there mister science-guy.
Don't spray that aerosol in my eye.
For I don't really want to die.
I'm a noble rabbit!

Frank, you are such a freak. Not much else to say about that.

[chandler]

Everyone could stop responding to the thread, I'm almost positive that would kill it.

[DGreenwood]

Originally Posted by marshmat

I can't think of anywhere else I have ever seen one man slander one boat so heavily, and without any backing or justification at that.

Backing??? Justification??? Both of those would require an adherance to the basic rules of discourse and logic. In Mighettos universe gibberish is the order of the day. How can you argue with nonsense?

[TP 52 Defender]

As for the boat J K built the rest of the class said measure it in - and yet it can't .........

[fatdog]

FROM sailinganarchy.com

How could anyone hate such a fine vessel.


A beautiful TP 52 shot by Max Ranchi at the Med Cup.

[marshmat]

Gorgeous boat, dog. Any higher-res copies of that one around?

[fatdog]

http://www.maxranchi.com/

I could not find any on his page yet, but here is the URL of the photog that took it.

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by fatdog

http://www.maxranchi.com/

I could not find any on his page yet, but here is the URL of the photog that took it.

That is indead a fine photo. I have long believed that the owner that is happy with his/her own boat can find
beauty in all boats. My objection to the TP52s is really in the marketing of them. They are the last in a long
experiment with fixed bulb keels which we should veiw as a failed experiment.

Do you hate this photo?



The TP52s were conceived 15 years ago in a conspiracy that was to dump older versions of them in Puget Sound. I think that part of the evil plan has been stopped. The other part of the evil plan was to use them
and their 1/2 size trainers - the TP26 footers - to keep young US born potentials in the sailing sport inferior
to EU born potentials. The significance of Kahn dumping Pegasus can not be understated. Competitive sailors
have to learn a different style of sailing, one that is more like flying an aircraft. Hence the Bethwaite Tasar
simulators. The Tasar's today are racing on the Columbia river. No one markets them, their owners just
simply enjoy an endless summer sailing with the best competitors in the world and being paid to crew on
TP52s.

Frank L. Mighetto