TP52s

[mighetto]

Lets follow up on the "success" of the TP52s. I am persuaded that the design is the most unsuccessful of all time in spite of marketing to the contrary and the apparent requirement that all who speak of them precede any discusiion with words like "allways exciting".

Lets chat a bit about the TP52s from the perspective of seahourse international which this month notes that a race design that takes 15 years before its first major event is to be questioned. That major event has yet to happen but is scheduled for the Med.

I will note that I was surprised when the two TP52s in the Pacific Northwest did not chalenge eachother in the Swiftsure this year, but rather selected different courses and classes for the race. Both did well. Later I discovered that Glory - the first of the failed design - has been extensively modified. I know her owner has a water ballasted family cruiser so if anyone knows if water ballast is involved in the modifications please state so. There should be more interest in the TP52s just as there is interest in Edsels. These vessels were so hyped

[marshmat]

Have you ever sailed on one?

[usa2]

Frank, i dont like to insult people, but you are an idiot. There are over 30 TP 52's existing/in build. I dont call that unsuccesful.
Glory had a new bow and stern section put on. Moveable ballast is illegal in the TP 52 Class.

[marshmat]

For two and a half months I thought this thing had actually died. Egad.

[marshmat]

Originally Posted by mighetto

One of the big problems is that you can not see light through the hull with sandwich construction. This makes the interior a dark cave like structure. But one great advantage is that any one with a shed and neighbors that are tolerant might be able to build.

Sandwich construction is NOT a good idea for beginners. Even pro builders often screw it up. Building an airtight mould, then getting a perfect bubble-free layup, and then vacuum bagging it before it starts to cure is an extremely difficult task. And if there's any compound curvature, or if you're dealing with anything below a waterline, you'd better be vac-bagging or else you're inviting delamination down the road.

[frankofile]

So what happened at the International Sandwich Symposium? Is it coincidence that Frank stopped posting his gibberish for almost a quarter of a year following his invited appearance at the conference?

[SailDesign]

Frank,
As the Engineer of the yard that built, and then "adjusted", Glory, let me assure you that there is no water ballast on her or any other TP52.
Maybe you should read the class rules before you even dream of posting more rubbish. They are attached for your edification.
Steve

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by SailDesign

Frank,
As the Engineer of the yard that built, and then "adjusted", Glory, let me assure you that there is no water ballast on her or any other TP52.
Maybe you should read the class rules before you even dream of posting more rubbish. They are attached for your edification.
Steve

I think the class rules have changed every year, correct me if that is not the case. Local papers reported that Glory was extensively modified for Swiftsure, and I note that she was not classed with Braveheart even after a special PHRF meeting to establish a class. Can you address this rubbish?

In any case, since mathematically derived stability requirements have been eliminated from ocean race boat design, this year is the last of the glory days for the TP52s. I understand that Glory herself is no longer considered an ocean crossing boat, that her owner is having a new TP52 built, or at least will be owner of record, and that if that new boat comes to the pacific northwest it will be but for a short time because it is one of the 22 TP52s to race in the med.

After 15 years only 22 TP52s. Hardly success. But predictable. I think I predicted that. The 15 years comes from Seahorse, we have discussed that before.

Glory's owner also races Tasars. The sailing styles of those two boats is so radically different, I have to wonder what the terms of ownership involved. For example, was Glory part payment for work done crewing? Glory's current owner is also completing or has completed a water ballasted boat using MacKay's designer.

Frank

[marshmat]

A class of 7.5 tonne, 15.8 metre (52') raceboats, that has been around for 15 years and has (depending on who you ask, it seems) 20 to 30 boats either actively racing or being prepped for racing, would seem to me to be a pretty successful class. Would we call the VO 70 a failure because there's only a handful of them around? After all, the 24-hour monohull record was broken several times on that race.

[usa2]

Umm, what is this 15 years you speak of, Frank? The TP 52 box rule was finalized in 2001. It is now 2006. So thats a bit less than 15 years. And there are actually 32 announced/existing TP52's, and there are more of them rumored to be in the works for East Coast owners.

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by migholetto

I understand that Glory herself is no longer considered an ocean crossing boat

Care to name a source for this surmise? I thought not.....
I would be very happy crossing oceans in Glory.
Steve

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by migholetto

and I note that she was not classed with Braveheart even after a special PHRF meeting to establish a class. Can you address this rubbish?

Well, if you are implying that tyour post is rubbish......
I know, you want me address the fact that she was not classed with Braveheart. Well, I don't have any first-hand facts available, but I would hazard a guess that the two boats do not rate the same
In a "development" or "box" rule, there is a certqain amount of leeway in the shape, dimensions, sail areas, etc. of the boat. This can lead to different ratings.
Simple.
Steve

[Mark 42]

Originally Posted by RHough

Every circus needs a side show?

Every sideshow needs A Freak?

[frankofile]

Originally Posted by marshmat

A class of 7.5 tonne, 15.8 metre (52') raceboats, that has been around for 15 years and has (depending on who you ask, it seems) 20 to 30 boats either actively racing or being prepped for racing, would seem to me to be a pretty successful class. Would we call the VO 70 a failure because there's only a handful of them around? After all, the 24-hour monohull record was broken several times on that race.

I believe Frank's point is that the TP52's numbers are low compared to the spectacular success of the Mac26x, a boat that costs an insignificant fraction of a TP52, has no active racing, handles like a bathtub, and is marketed to sailing amateurs and newbies. An analogy might be major league baseball, which, with only a couple dozen teams, is an obvious failure compared to the hundreds of thousands of amateur softball teams that play every evening and weekend.

Really Frank, when you went to the ISS, did they laugh right into your face or did they wait until your back was turned?

[SailDesign]

I think Frank's "15 years and no big event" is aimed at the Mac26, which (as far as I can Google) has never had a World Championship.
Steve