TP52s

[frankofile]

bhnautika,
Other threads on this forum discuss those and other serious and real sailing topics. Or feel free to start your own. This thread is the comedy channel, featuring a show called "Watch the Idiot Dance". It is definitely lowest-common-denominator entertainment. Pull up a comfortable chair and be prepared to laugh, and to be amazed at the absurd things the Idiot comes up with.

edit: I hope I'm not insulting idiots.

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by frankofile

bhnautika,
Other threads on this forum discuss those and other serious and real sailing topics. Or feel free to start your own. This thread is the comedy channel, featuring a show called "Watch the Idiot Dance". It is definitely lowest-common-denominator entertainment. Pull up a comfortable chair and be prepared to laugh, and to be amazed at the absurd things the Idiot comes up with.

edit: I hope I'm not insulting idiots.

Of course this thread is the comedy channel. We are chatting about TP52s which are the last of a way-to-long line of joke boats, generally defined as the "big boats" with fixed fins. The premise of the thread is that the TP52s would be the fastest box rule vessels to become one-design. That has just happened. The TP52s at key west have just been culled out into their own one-design class where race management no longer needs to worry about the lubbery way these boats are operated or the scallywag crew who would threaten the decent amoung us.

AZ sailor - I would never think of burdenning a court system with correcting your behavior. We have sailor's wit for that. You will always be welcome here even if you sail TP52s. The Med is where the TP52s belong. It is there that they are built and there that one-design racing of them will be most supportable. They never were designed for the West Coast of the US, or the Pacific Ocean, inspite of the name, and we grow airheads here not fools.

The TP52s are the scapegoat for a period of experimentation that was continued way to long after the evidence had rebuked the theories upon which they were designed. In general, any fixed fin race boat design of the last 30 years was designed for fools because Bethwaite had already identified what he is now calling the apparent-wind revoluton.

Frank L. Mighetto
Member SSSS
Member US Sailing

[frankofile]

Quoting Bethwaite again are you? Would you care to entertain us by describing your understanding of the apparent-wind revolution (what you call the revoluton)?

You don't really need to answer since I assume that you have no clue what it means. Heck, you never answer questions anyway, why break your streak of obtuseness now. I only ask on the off-chance that you will turn in another of your crazy parallel universe physics discourses.

[usa2]

this is highly amusing.

[stevel]

edit: I hope I'm not insulting idiots.[/quote]

Naw! I'm not the least bit offended

[fatdog]

[Hobie Cat "athletes"]

In twenty years of sailing at the collegiate and professional levels, etc. I have never heard of such a thing. Do they get Nike endorsements?

Also, Frank, what’s up with ragging on TP52 crewmembers, did you catch a beating from some of them, did a TP52 crew (not a big boat crew, but a specific TP52 crew) violate you in some way? If so what boat? What’s the story?

It appears to me that your rants refer more to "class warfare" in the traditional social sense, not class as in the nautical nomenclature, i.e. one design class. Just my take, the injection of politics etc. has me wondering what exactly it is you are raging against...rich republicans with big keeled boats and slack jawed twenty something crews? Is the TP52 simply a subconscious metaphor for those that you truly loathe? I heard the next TP52 is going to be called Transference.

[TP 52 Defender]

Frank are you still angry that not one of the TP52 will even let you look below? You are not capable of sailing on one of the 52's they are way beyond you - you actually have to know how to sail. As a crew on a few of the 52's I ask you how many Cup's have you been in (or LV's)? How many Worlds? How many Nationals or Regional’s?

The crews on the TP52's are some of the best in the World. If you where allowed in the class you would end up with more Red Flags against you then most racers will even see in their lifetime (Remember we have seen video of you fouling boats on the start).

As to KWRW - the TP52's are still not OD they are a box rule and they where not culled out they wanted their own class. As to lubberly handling - how so? The TP52’s will move to the Med in the Summer (Most) those that do not will compete on the East Coast and West Coast circuits as a box class when enough boats are around or under IRC for races such as Bermuda. The only fool here is you Frank – just thought you should know.

Any real questions about the class?

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by fatdog

[Hobie Cat "athletes"]

In twenty years of sailing at the collegiate and professional levels, etc. I have never heard of such a thing. Do they get Nike endorsements?

Also, Frank, what’s up with ragging on TP52 crewmembers, did you catch a beating from some of them, did a TP52 crew (not a big boat crew, but a specific TP52 crew) violate you in some way? If so what boat? What’s the story?

It appears to me that your rants refer more to "class warfare" in the traditional social sense, not class as in the nautical nomenclature, i.e. one design class. Just my take, the injection of politics etc. has me wondering what exactly it is you are raging against...rich republicans with big keeled boats and slack jawed twenty something crews? Is the TP52 simply a subconscious metaphor for those that you truly loathe? I heard the next TP52 is going to be called Transference.

See http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums...howtopic=28553. My wife has rights to the balls. Sorry. My objections to the TP52s run on many levels, but I only feel sorry for the crew members who are not being compensated. The game being played is to extract as much wealth from the owners of these boats as possible and those who race Tasars are doing very well in that race game. If you are not getting paid to be crew on one of these sad designs you need to contact a professional as you are at least owed minimum wage. My views on Preston Gates and Ellis are well known. Wealth transference - very cleaver.

Frank L. Mighetto

[solrac]

hi guys,don't know if I'm off topic, (sorry just in case)
I'm on the process to build my first 33" boat (not a newbie, more than 30 years sailing & building daysailers). The plans are about 70% my own design & 30% from some internet info found.
As any boatbuilder may suspect, yeah I'm really frightened...
May some specialist here be so kind to check the boatplans? I will appreciate any coments.

[Skippy]

solrac: May some specialist here be so kind to check the boatplans? I will appreciate any coments.

If you're serious about this, START A NEW THREAD.

[solrac]

sorry i fit was off topic.
I'll starta new thread
thks

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by solrac

hi guys,don't know if I'm off topic, (sorry just in case)
I'm on the process to build my first 33" boat (not a newbie, more than 30 years sailing & building daysailers). The plans are about 70% my own design & 30% from some internet info found.
As any boatbuilder may suspect, yeah I'm really frightened...
May some specialist here be so kind to check the boatplans? I will appreciate any coments.

Solrac, welcome to the most usefull thread in recent history on boat design. Your post is what this forum and this thread are all about. Lets review just a bit. I started the thread owing to myths about sailboat design, the biggest one being that movable foil, retractable foil sailers were dangerous, the danger coming from the foil attachment to the hull which usually involves a penitration of some kind like a well or trunk. The myth has been so widely held that it litereally has kept monohull sailboat design behind science by 30 years. In 1995 or so, and to break the entrenched views, ISAF dictated to US Sailing and other organisations that movable foil vessels, which are now called movable ballast vessels, were to be supported and in the US Macgregor Yachts responded with its revolutionary MacGregor 26x.

The designers, developers and perpitrators of the TP52s worked to undermine this dictate and in 2004 sought to continue the design-by-court-system tradition common umoung the lubberly. They supported Jim Teeters, even recommended that Jim Teeters present material during a drunken boaters case that involved the Macgregor26x but could have involved any boat on the water. The judge and jury never understood the motives for Teeters involvement in the case but this became clear when after being rebuked to the point of impeachment by a designer named Taylor, Teeters as Directory of Research for US Sailing recommended to the only US representatives to the Grand Pre Rule Working Party, that they withdraw. The move failed and the VO70s were born. These vessels like their sponsor Volvo are suffering exactly the predicted worse case senarios and yet they have not been lost to the sea. They are in effect proving what BAYLINER proved about sailboats and what all multi-hullers have preached for these long 30 years.

All boats regardless of attached foils and external weight can capsize. Those that do so and can not sink, are preferable.

See http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums...howtopic=30382

Know that in the fight for peace, the tools of effect are BLOGs like this one. Trader, and the TP52s in general represent a culture of cheating that has never been supported on paper and will not be so supported in the future.

Your 33 footer probably should not be 33 foot at the waterline if she will be for ocean use. I say this only from experience but there should be some recognition that size of ocean swells and waves precludes some sizes of sailboats because the bow can be on on wave top and the stern on an other. At that point you get roll. In my opinion the modern sailboat should be large - like over 45 foot, or small, under 30 foot if she is to take advantage of modern weather reporting to avoid bad sea contitions. Anything in the range of 30 to 45 foot give or take a few feed, should be appreciated for its historical value and design enginuity during a period of history when every vessel could be expected to weather a storm in her life time. With today's weather reporting that expectation no longer holds. Design should take that into effect as well as movable foils and monohulls that if capsized do not sink.

Frank L. Mighetto
Toliva Shole was beyond expectations
congrate to all who participated

[sorenfdk]

Originally Posted by mighetto

...the most usefull thread in recent history on boat design.

Except, of course, if You're a designer, sailor or otherwise engaged in sailing. If You are, then this thread only has value as entertainment.

Originally Posted by mighetto

I started the thread owing to myths about sailboat design

And You're fighting myths with lies...

Originally Posted by mighetto

The designers, developers and perpitrators of the TP52s ... recommended that Jim Teeters present material during a drunken boaters case...

Can You back this up with facts or is it just another lie (like the Farr International bankruptcy)

Originally Posted by mighetto

Your 33 footer probably should not be 33 foot at the waterline if she will be for ocean use. I say this only from experience...

...of which You have none.

[mholguin]

This is becoming better than "Lord of the Rings" and cheaper!.... Someone bring the pop-corn...

[usa2]

frank is someone paying you do post all this BS?