TP52s

[fatdog]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mac-G...QQcmdZViewItem

Frank, I figured that you were the best candidate to explain this ebay post, any idea what is actually for sale? Should MacGregor or JBoats be more upset?

[the_sphincter]

why does it say j-24 style? hull doesn't even look like a j-24.

fatdog, the correct answer is jboats should be more upset. they have a reputation to protect.

[mholguin]

Wonder how high will the bids raise for this speed demon....

[frankofile]

Originally Posted by oobayly

doh, not used to wave drag! Friction & vortex drag is my kind of stuff, thanks for pointing that out

Do you mean to say that airplane design principles do not apply directly to sailboat design??? In the world according to Frank, they are one and the same.

[DLackey]

Originally Posted by the_sphincter

why does it say j-24 style?

Absolutely no head room inside?

[mholguin]

Talk about resale value of those things.....

[fatdog]

www.mean-machine.nl



Sweet ride....with a tiller!..... Whoever is driving better eat his Wheaties.

[oobayly]

Originally Posted by fatdog

Sweet ride....with a tiller!..... Whoever is driving better eat his Wheaties.

Why would you want coffee grinders on something so slow?

[guit]

Originally Posted by oobayly

Why would you want coffee grinders on something so slow?

So you can enjoy a freshly grinded cup of coffee?

But seriously. It looks nice but there is something missing...

Why is it NOT "shocking pink"?

oh and about the tiller, fits nice in De Ridder's Mumm30 & Farr 40 line. Except of course this TP52 ain't a Farr design...

[mholguin]

Originally Posted by oobayly

Why would you want coffee grinders on something so slow?

HUMMMM interesting question... but why don't the mac 26 have them neither?

[usa2]

"UMMMM interesting question... but why don't the mac 26 have them neither? "

Maybe its got electric winches like a supermaxi because the loads generated while sailing in the 4th mode are too great for any human powered winches.

[oobayly]

I reckon it would look good with a Mac26 style wheel

[marshmat]

Originally Posted by mholguin

Wonder how high will the bids raise for this speed demon....

$1325 USD, folks, or about what we in Canada pay for a nice kicker motor. To think I could have a whole cutting-edge racing yacht for what my neighbour paid for his new Merc kicker!

[marshmat]

This was posted a little while back. Since the guy's right, and you all ignored him, I'll quote it again:

Originally Posted by the_sphincter

Frank: The Mac26x is a trailerable motorsailer, and the best trailerable motorsailor on the market. It is not a racing trainer any more than a catalina or hunter or island packet is, in fact it may be worse as a racing trainer because of the tiny wheel, which is much less effective than a tiller (which a boat that size should have) or a larger wheel. The mac does no have moveable ballast in the sense of a maxi, which would move ballast up to the windward side after every tack. As I understand it, the mac26 fills tanks up on each side, which in turn makes the boat float lower in the water, which in turn lowers the centre of gravity, which makes a more stable boat. Just because it is a cruisng boat does not mean you cannot race it. You can in fact race it sucessfully, just like any sailboat.

VO 70's and TP52's on the other hand, are in a category known as "pure racers". You cannot cruise on them, and having them undercrewed could be dangerous. This is because in order to make boats faster, they increase the sail area to displacement ratio (sort of like putting a bigger engine in a lighter car). When you increase sail are, guess what, you also increase the loads, which requires a larger crew to handle. Nothing wrong with that. They are raceboats, and not intended to do anything else besides race (go as fast as possible). Because they are built within a box rule, designers push the limits, which may result in less stable boats. Nothing wrong with this, again (if there was, we should ban dinghies).

Now, comparing a cruising motor-sailer like the Mac 26x with a racing boat like the tp52 is retarded and should not be done. You are primarily using this thread to promote the Mac 26x, and to slander the tp52. The tp52 rule is the tp 52 rule, and it's not going to change, so all your criticisms of modern designers who design tp52's are invalid, because if that's the case, you should criticize the rule for "lack of stability." This tp52 thread should discuss various design aspects of the tp52 (it's boatdesign.net), such as foil shapes, rig designs, and hull shape. Then if you want to discuss the design on the Mac 26x, you could make another thread about it. We can discuss the rig, the foils, etc. If you want to criticize the tp52 rule, you should go to a general sailing forum. Maybe they'll discuss it with you at scuttlebutt? maybe sailing world?
best of luck

Are we clear, now, that the Mac 26 and TP 52 are NOT comparable boats? Frank especially, are you clear on that?

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by zerogara

What racing boat maintains substantial value 2-3 years after the campaign that it was built for has passed. Very few anymore find a good home.
The market worldwide has been saturated with old (not that old) racers and some fitted and improved to e better than when they came off the shipyard. They are orphans. Once in a while some nut will buy them and try to utilize them in chartering and sailing schools. It is a thrill for most sailors to go on a wild ride on one of those beasts. But the market is limited.
http://yachtworld.com/listing/pl_boa...37&slim=quick&
http://yachtworld.com/listing/pl_boa...searchtype=buy

Your best example would be the Cal 40s. These were designed to prove that a boat with cruising accomodations could be a racer. We also have examples from the production boat builder Hunter. Many of their models have identical hulls but the racing version is fitted with gear differently. At South Sound Sailing Society, Tony Rey took a cruising Hunter and replaced the gear with racing equipment. The result was a win in Swiftsure and a place the next year.

I wish to point out now that most boats over 45 foot are good power boats. The yacht clubs oriented to power boating know this. Tony was part of such a club when he won Swiftsure and it is my great fear and prediction that he will be converted to a pure power boater in the next few years. He very rarely attends Society meetings any more.

Coming from a power boat background, I know well how this works. Once the sailboater has advenced from smaller sailers to a boat over 45 foot (which is a power boat disguised as a sailboat) they are enticed by a yacht club to join and from that point on they are worked on to move to a pure power vessel because these vessels better fit the shore based accomodations to whith the yacht club would have to dredge otherwise. The answer of course is to design larger sailboats with swing keels.

Frank L. Mighetto